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  • #46
    After reading this thread I thought I would throw in a warning.

    If you find a really good deal on a 4BT, but it doesn't have the EPA sticker and the engine decal with the serial number and CPL attached to it, the seller might be hiding something. The EPA sticker tells you if the engine is approved for automotive use. This is important because stationery and marine versions of the 4BT are not designed for automotive applications. Without the engine serial number or CPL it can (will) be difficult to order parts for the engine.

    I have seen several cases of 4BTs being sold on eBay and other places where the sellers have tried to pass off industrial and marine engines as automotive, even while posting pictures of the EPA (non automotive use) and engine tags. We recently found what we thought was a great deal on a 1996 4BTA (it was being sold with the aftercooler parts), but the seller refused to provide a picture of the tags, but said he could go to the salvage yard and "get a set" for it since we were so concerned about it. The engine might have been legit, but the seller couldn't prove it. We dropped that deal like a hot potato.

    Be careful!

    Linda


    Here's a little more information
    This is a description of the difference between an on-road Diesel and stationary Diesel engine as in a generator. The on-road is designed to run at variable speeds while the stationary engine is designed to run at a fixed rpm. Here's how and why:

    original post by flyin71h:


    "The primary difference between an on road and off road engine is the function of the governer. The on road engine has what is sometimes referred to as a speed governer, which does exactly what the name implies. It limits the maximum rpm of the engine and nothing else. Actual engine speed (below max) is controlled by the throttle linkage on the injection pump. If the load on the engine increases, rpm will decrease unless the throttle is opened further by some outside influence. In the case of a truck engine, that influence would be the driver's foot. The off road engine has a load governer. It's purpose is to keep the engine at a specified rpm regardless of load. As load increases or decreases, the governer proportionally increases or decreases fuel delivery to maintain the same rpm without any movement of the throttle. What this means is, when your truck with the off road engine in it encounters a hill, it is going to try to go faster all by itself. I'm not saying it won't work, but it will be very "different" to drive, and could potentially be dangerous under certain circumstances.
    original"

    original post by BOB SOVA:

    "I agree with you and could not have said it better. You have perfectly described a "industrial stationary engine" in a power unit such as a pump or generator. They are designed to run at a fixed speed to prevent cavitations in the pump or to maintain the hertz frequency in a generator. There are however some non-stationary off road diesel engines that could possibly be adapted to function in vehicles. These would be found in wheeled and tracked tractors. These engines are designed to be run at variable throttle position speeds and the governor is designed to increase and maintain the engine speed only as far as the throttle is positioned. The major difficulty in using one of these engines would be emission certification requirements that our duly elected officials have established for our own protection."


    All I can add is choose your engines wisely and look for the EPA approved tag.

    Comment


    • #47
      In addition, for those of you in CA, thinking about this conversion into a gasser that currently falls under CA emmissions regulations (1972 and newer), the motor must be the same age or newer than your vehicle and it must have been a CA legal application in the donor vehicle it came from, so those stickers are also required from CA EPA. Once approved by the CA DMV Referee, your vehicle will not be subject to future anual smog inspections* as diesels are exempt from inspection in CA.
      MN
      *2007 and newer diesels require catalytic converters and will require inspection in CA. As an example, the Jeep 2.8 CRD found in the Liberty, is a 45 state motor and NOT legal in CA. A perfect motor for the Jeep conversion, but not legal in CA....= (

      Comment


      • #48
        In Arizona there are two counties, Maricopa (where Phoenix is located) and Pima (where Tucson is located) with emissions testing on vehicles 1967 and newer. The rest of the state does not have any emissions testing. That makes 1966 and older vehicles ideal candidates for diesel conversions if you live in one of those counties. Else I think the only way you can legitimately do a diesel repower is if the vehicle had a diesel option when it was manufactured. For example, you could get a 1989 Dodge 3/4-ton truck with either a gasoline or diesel engine so making the swap would be okay.

        Comment


        • #49
          Additional to what P14175 said: there are currently two 4BT cummins advertised in various places on the net for about $2,000 from one seller. I e-mailed him and the engines DO NOT HAVE CPL tags! As mentioned above, this is the first question on any engine purchase. I would not consider either of those engines.

          Also a few 4BT's have been stolen lately. The CPL number is virtually the same as a VIN because no other VIN's are used on most vehicles with 4BT. Not saying these two engines mentioned are stolen, but cautioning everyone to use care in your selection. I'd hate to pop the hood at a truck stop and have the 6' 8" 345 lbs trucker standing next to me say, "Hey, weasel, that's MY ENGINE!" Bad day at the Flying J........

          Comment


          • #50
            ISB170 in a 1949 Dodge Power Wagon Crewcab

            Originally posted by climer97007 View Post
            I just bought a brand spanking new Cummins 3.9L ISB170 off of eBay just last week. It is targeted for a 1949 Dodge Power Wagon truck. I want to mate it to an NV4500 5 speed. But, I am not having much luck figuring out what kind of Bell Housing will allow this to happen for under $1200 from Cummins. Does anyone know of a used Bell Housing I can get for this? It needs to have an SAE 3 pattern on the motor, and the NV4500 pattern for the transmission. Thanks!
            Well, I have solved this problem by fabricating a custom Bell Housing (Actually two of them, I have a spare now). I bought a 1998 Dodge NV4500HD 5 speed, and a 1993 Dodge NP205 which almost bolted right up (Had to machine the Coupler down a little on one side). But, all the pieces play together now! WooHOO!

            You can see the bits and pices coming together by going -here-. Or you can type it in like so: http://www.beckersauto.com/GeneClimer.htm

            Thanks,
            Gene

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Gene Climer View Post
              Well, I have solved this problem
              I am glad you came up with a solution. I was going to mention Phoenix Castings http://www.phxgrp.com as a source for adapters.

              You might also want to check out the 4btswaps forum. http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/index.php

              I like your project! Way Cool!

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by p14175 View Post
                I was going to mention Phoenix Castings http://www.phxgrp.com as a source for adapters.
                I tried Phoenix castings. They really don't have a clean solution. First you buy a Phoenix Castings SAE#3 adaptor plate which takes you to a Chevy Flywheel Housing pattern. Then you have to find a Chevy Bell Housing. And you need a Chevy NV4500 at that point. I already had the Dodge NV4500HD and did not want to replace the input shaft.

                But, wait, there is more.

                Then you have to get the Cummins Flywheel for the SAE#3 housing, $850 later. My ISB170 only came with a flexplate. Then you bolt the Phoenix Castings Flywheel adaptor to yur SAE#3 Flywheel. And then you buy yourself a Chevy Flywheel and bolt it to the Phoenix Castings Flywheel adaptor. And then you buy a Chevy clutch to mate to the chevy input shaft of your now modified NV4500. Well, all told, this was about $2500 worth of stuff.

                I also tried Wilcap adaptors. I talked to them on and off for months and got no where. I finally bit the bullet and designed and built my own Bell Housing.

                Gene

                Comment


                • #53
                  old post...

                  Sorry for such a late post, but I just came upon this site when I was searching for a 4bt....TO the OP, did you ever get your engine? Any chance of sending me the contact info? Thanks in advance

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    New here....came across this site while looking for a 4bt, never had heard of a power wagon, but I find them very cool, there is a ton of info on this site. I am looking to mate a 4bt into a ford 250(say it aint so) and am curious to find out the OP's experiences with his contact. This is the first solid source I have found, and would greatly appreciate more info...thanks

                    Brandon

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by mtbr41 View Post
                      New here....came across this site while looking for a 4bt, never had heard of a power wagon, but I find them very cool, there is a ton of info on this site. I am looking to mate a 4bt into a ford 250(say it aint so) and am curious to find out the OP's experiences with his contact. This is the first solid source I have found, and would greatly appreciate more info...thanks

                      Brandon
                      Give us a call or e-mail via the website below.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Looking for someone local, but I will definatly check you guys out

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          I strongly suggest you do contact Charles Talbert 'M Series Rebuilds'. You won't get better or more accurate information and his reputation is most excellent! He is one of 2 people to whom I would give my truck and a blank check, "Call me when you're done...".

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by JimmieD View Post
                            I strongly suggest you do contact Charles Talbert 'M Series Rebuilds'. You won't get better or more accurate information and his reputation is most excellent! He is one of 2 people to whom I would give my truck and a blank check, "Call me when you're done...".
                            Hmmm... and whom might that second person be??? = )

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by MoparNorm View Post
                              Hmmm... and whom might that second person be??? = )
                              Don't let it go to your head, Bunky, and I never said I was going to SIGN the check, just that it would be BLANK HAAAH! :~ )

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                1949 Dodge Power Wagon, ISBe170, and NV4500HD

                                Originally posted by climer97007 View Post
                                I just bought a brand spanking new Cummins 3.9L ISB170 off of eBay just last week. It is targeted for a 1949 Dodge Power Wagon custom crewcab truck. I have mated it to a Dodge NV4500HD 5 speed. You can email me at climer97007@gmail.com or call me at 503-267-1648 (Cell). Thanks!
                                Okay, that was 10 years ago now. I am still working on my '49 Dodge Power Wagon project. I hope to have it running later this year. I ended up fabricating the Bell Housing myself. Actually took a host of characters, but, we pulled it off. And I still have a spare, as I built two of them.

                                My build is now being documented on my Facebook Page. Feel free to take a look and offer advice. I surely need it. Thanks, Gene

                                https://www.facebook.com/pages/1949-...?ref=bookmarks

                                Comment

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