Power steering kit

[Charles Talbert]

Very good points, Customer Service sometimes starts with the Customer. It's always a good starting point after you research a problem/difficulty to contact the seller/distributor or manufacture.




Charles is correct, unless you know the entire usage and service history of the truck, you don't know what parts are "factory" correct, or what other modifications or damage has occured. Many of these trucks engines have been rebuilt many times by many shops and shade tree mechanics, so finding a stud or bolt in the wrong location on the head is a very common occurrence.

Not only are these "not exact fit" issues due to hard use or shade tree error, we have found that many undamaged trucks with limited use aren't much different. We have had to realize that designers and engineers back in the day did not have the high tech luxuries enjoyed by today's manufacturer's. It was all done in a manual type of mode then, so there will be obvious inaccuracies from one vehicle to the next. There was no computer aided design or computer aided manufacturing when early Power Wagons were built. That is precisely why we do not sell certain components for installation outside our shop. There is simply too much room for error. We can usually overcome such issues fairly easily if we know the discrepancies and can take all this into consideration when we are building kits to install repower engines, etc. Then there are those that always have problems installing components, many times due to the fact they do not read and study to fully understand the manual before a project is started. Some people refuse to read the manual, "until all else fails." There can be many reasons for problems, and it will always be a fact that some of them can be hard for the kit builder to solve "long distance" when we ship a retrofit kit across the country to an installer that we know nothing of their skills, available tooling, proper work setting, etc.

[Mkeller131]

Or simply, the brackets are constructed incorrectly, and the size of the provided steering box locates it too close to the firewall to even slip on a universal joint. Maybe that could be the problem, not the directions which are nebulous at best. Think that could be it? Have you installed this kit yourself? Then you can look at the photographs. Thats all that needs to be said.

[Charles Talbert]

Or simply, the brackets are constructed incorrectly, and the size of the provided steering box locates it too close to the firewall to even slip on a universal joint. Maybe that could be the problem, not the directions which are nebulous at best. Think that could be it? Have you installed this kit yourself? Then you can look at the photographs. Thats all that needs to be said.

Have not seen the kit or the installation instructions you were working with, can't comment on any possible miscalculations or problems in that realm.

I know we take extreme care when preparing manuals making every effort to explain things in a way that any person with general mechanical knowledge can understand and use directions in an effective manner. The last line in our instructions always says something to the effect of "if you don't fully understand the instructions, call or email us," with our shop phone and email clearly posted. We would much rather take the time to help you understand than for you to have problems we can likely eliminate. This way the client is happy, and we don't get negative feed back. BUT, if we don't know an installer had a problem, then we can't help. The installer may struggle through the project with a decent outcome, or it is also possible that something may not get installed and set up as intended which can lead to improper operation, operator frustration, component failure, or worse.

We have also dealt with installers who thought they knew more than us, and made modifications to the kit while installing it. This never ends well, but seems is always our fault when their modifications don't work out. Good advice, never modify a builder's kit and expect the builder to reimburse you when you ignore instructions and do it your way with a failed outcome. Builder's will not reimburse you when you take matters into your own hands and do not notify them before you modify their product. Just common sense.

[Mkeller131]

Starting to sound like you may have built this kit?

[Charles Talbert]

Starting to sound like you may have built this kit?

No, you can be assured it didn't come from M Series Rebuild, we have never sold anything to VPW. Just saying I've been in the position to see both sides of similar situations before. Like I said, I have not seen what you had to work with. At the same time I know absolutely nothing about your skills, so I can't go there in favor of or against either party. I have felt your pain concerning vague instructions, I have bought equipment for the shop that had to be assembled, I've really wondered a few times why they even went to the trouble, instructions basically said just enough to cause total confusion.

[John S]

A very true analysis Mr Talbert . That disclaimer should be in bold print on any kit regardless of who builds it.


Not only are these "not exact fit" issues due to hard use or shade tree error, we have found that many undamaged trucks with limited use aren't much different. We have had to realize that designers and engineers back in the day did not have the high tech luxuries enjoyed by today's manufacturer's. It was all done in a manual type of mode then, so there will be obvious inaccuracies from one vehicle to the next.

[Matthew Welcher PWA]

I have installed this kit, There were a few things that had to take a little modification, I did grind the edges of the bracket, so that the bracket would fit into the inside frame rail nicely, you do at times and it is different for each truck on grinding off of some of the bracket for the master cylinder. I have found that depending on if it is or isn't a slope topped master cylinder also makes a difference on how it fits. You also at times I have found have to re route the brake lines for it. It is a platform to work off of, Every situation has been different. Each truck has its quirks.

Unlike the M37 Power steering kit that mounts on the outside of the frame rail. Which is an easier installation made by the same company.

This kit I believe was designed many years ago by Ugly Trucking and many, many of these have been installed over the last 20 years or so. Not everything is perfect in the fabrication world and believe me when I say each truck i have touched with a wrench are very different no matter how similar you may think they are.

You can see where others have posted the link to whom actually manufactures these kits.

I would like to also emphasize that we are all here to help each other out, and share our struggles and triumphs. The best to my knowledge we are all here to help each other build our trucks share our lives and help each other in a positive manner.

[vcpowerwagon]

Frame mods

Hello. Just another option out there for the power steering modification. Most of you have seen this before. I had a hard time removing metal from a frame also. I do still have to work on the mounting bracket some more to make the new steering box line up to the original holes in the frame. As Matt said, "its a platform to work off of".

Martin

[frippe123]

Not meant to hijack this thread but out just of curiosity. Has anyone explored the possibility of using an electric power steering where the motor sits on the steering column under the dash?

[Charles Talbert]

Not meant to hijack this thread but out just of curiosity. Has anyone explored the possibility of using an electric power steering where the motor sits on the steering column under the dash?

Mainly curiosity here, I really shouldn't even comment as I know nothing at all about electric power steering. I love studying new technology. My first thought is I have not heard of an electric type of system designed for a heavier vehicle, although there is lots of things out there that I have not heard of or really paid attention too. There may possibly be something that is fully capable, although I tend to favor mechanical, linkage types of systems; electrical factors would be of great concern if it was not backed up in some way. I feel certain such as system would or certainly should have a safety net built in, but like I said, I know nothing about it. With that said, I'm wondering, do you know of such a system? I'll say up front that anything we use here at M Series is FULLY designed and tested to the UMPTH degree before we would consider using it on someone's truck, especially components such as steering, brakes, and the like.

[Desoto61]

The systems I've seen basically bolt into/onto the column and the motor assists in turning the steering shaft, just like the hydraulic system, it's not a "steer by wire" type of thing. It detects you turning the shaft and provides an electric assist.

Obviously they far more easily vary the amount of assist they provide based on various conditions but outside the obvious power requirements (lower overall engine load but much higher electrical load when being used) they can also have thermal issues with hard use like any electric motor, which as you mentioned is definitely an issue with trucks like ours where slower speeds and bigger tires are common.

[Charles Talbert]

The systems I've seen basically bolt into/onto the column and the motor assists in turning the steering shaft, just like the hydraulic system, it's not a "steer by wire" type of thing. It detects you turning the shaft and provides an electric assist.

Obviously they far more easily vary the amount of assist they provide based on various conditions but outside the obvious power requirements (lower overall engine load but much higher electrical load when being used) they can also have thermal issues with hard use like any electric motor, which as you mentioned is definitely an issue with trucks like ours where slower speeds and bigger tires are common.

Sounds like this system may have something in common with "torque generator" hydraulic assist systems based on the way you described how it incorporates into the shaft.

[CSCameron]

A quick Google search came up with this. Just to show how they work, this would not work on the 1 ton trucks. However, it shows that it is a possibility...

Video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnIxjjSnDo8

American Powertrain Website...
http://americanpowertrain.com/p-2945...-steering.html

I would love one of these on my 55 FFPW!

Clark

[Charles Talbert]

A quick Google search came up with this. Just to show how they work, this would not work on the 1 ton trucks. However, it shows that it is a possibility...

Video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnIxjjSnDo8

American Powertrain Website...
http://americanpowertrain.com/p-2945...-steering.html

I would love one of these on my 55 FFPW!

Clark

It is indeed much like the torque generator installation, although we kept it in front of the firewall and out of the cab for obvious reasons. It isn't a suitable option on a power wagon because of needed space, but is a great option on the 2 1/2 ton military trucks. Not sure how precise centering everything has to be with this electric set up; the torque generator works super great if installed precisely and correctly. An off center installation will cause problems with the generator.

[frippe123]

Seems like the EZ power steering has been installed in a WC52 according to their Dutch site.

http://www.ezpowersteering.nl/car/71/18/Dodge.html