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  • #61
    The brakes are done and the jackstands are removed. All four tires on the ground - a milestone for sure. Next will be brake lines, master cylinder, fuel tank and fuel lines, installing engine/transmission, and then drivelines. I hope to get this done by Halloween as I am only able to work on this weekends.
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    • #62
      We put the Engine in place today. it is really starting to look good.
      Attached Files

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      • #63
        Brake Adjustment

        I could use some help, does anyone know the process for adjusting the brakes? There are bottom cam adjusters on the shoe pivot and mid level cams to spread the shoes outward. I think the bottom ones need to be adjusted first but how (and don't tell me to loosen nut and turn them)? Arrow visible on end of adjuster should be turned to what position to start?
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        • #64
          Originally posted by RicherRacing View Post
          We put the Engine in place today. it is really starting to look good.
          More pics
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          • #65
            Brakelines next, then transmission and driveshaft, I ordered all 8 (PTO, Intermediate, and front/rear) U Joints from Vintage Power Wagons today.
            Attached Files

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            • #66
              Originally posted by RicherRacing View Post
              I could use some help, does anyone know the process for adjusting the brakes? There are bottom cam adjusters on the shoe pivot and mid level cams to spread the shoes outward. I think the bottom ones need to be adjusted first but how (and don't tell me to loosen nut and turn them)? Arrow visible on end of adjuster should be turned to what position to start?
              Do you have the reprint power wagon owners manual from VPW, or the shop manual for your year truck? These are invaluable. You can find these on eBay or VPW has new reprints.
              The bottom ones are adjusted first, they are the "major adjustment cams",
              Then the top (minor adjustment) are adjusted in to where the shoes barely drag.
              Check in the archives of this and joes forum too, for adjustment of the bottom, I can't recall right now the exact procedure.

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              • #67
                Good advice from Doc Dave

                Originally posted by Doc Dave View Post
                Do you have the reprint power wagon owners manual from VPW, or the shop manual for your year truck? These are invaluable. You can find these on eBay or VPW has new reprints.
                The bottom ones are adjusted first, they are the "major adjustment cams",
                Then the top (minor adjustment) are adjusted in to where the shoes barely drag.
                Check in the archives of this and joes forum too, for adjustment of the bottom, I can't recall right now the exact procedure.
                I start with the drums and shoes off and play with the bottom cam adjusters until I can see exactly how they work. Adjust them so they pull the shoes into the smallest possible overall diameter. Then adjust them so they push the shoes out to the largest possible overall diameter. Watch the arrows and note which way they point at the two extremes. Then, initially set the lower cams somewhere in the middle. Arrows at this setting should be somewhat symmetrical to each other.

                Next, play with the top adjusters with the shoes on but the drums off. You will find at the position where they pull the shoes into the smallest possible overall diameter, the "point" of the lobe will hit the back of the shoe creating what could be called a "hard stop" that limits further adjustment. Start in this position.

                Put the drums on and get ready for some back and forth adjusting and readjusting and adjusting again. The object is to have the entire surface of each shoe make contact with the drum all at once, NOT the heal first (will result in a spongy feel as the shoes flex and deform under hydraulic pressure until they bend far enough to make full contact) and certainly NOT the toe first. Let me rephrase that...CERTAINLY NOT THE TOE FIRST. If you wind up with only the toes of the shoes contacting the drum, you will never get the heal to contact regardless of how much pressure you apply to them. Toe first contact results in toe-only contact and is like rolling down a hill in a little red wagon and throwing the tongue forward. The tongue of the wagon will probably dig into the ground and cause quite a wipeout. It is admittedly kind of fun to see Calvin and Hobbes do this, but not much fun when it happens to an actual 8-year old. Toe-only contact of the shoes can cause very erratic and unpredictable braking reaction to the point of possible unexpected locking up the wheels during a panic brake. Yes, stock Power-Wagon brakes are fully capable of locking up all four wheels at once.

                The method of adjustment outlined in the service manuals involves a special tool that takes the place of the brake drum during shoe adjustment. If you are like the 99.9% of the rest of us who do not have one of these specialized tools, you will be measuring shoe-to-drum clearance more or less blindly with a feeler gauge stuck in through the inspection port on the front of each drum with all components except tires and wheels in place.

                The actual clearance you need varies by how far the drums have been turned oversized and by how accurately the driveline shop arched the shoes to fit the newly surfaced drums. I will assume you did have the drums turned (surfaced) and the shoes arched to fit. If not, it would probably be a good idea to do so before reading further.

                This clearance will be set with the feeler gauge (preferably not just one set, but two or more sets). Actual measured clearance will depend upon the variables I alluded to in the paragraph above. There is also some debate on what the actual dimensions should be. The first time I performed this adjustment on all new brake parts, I went with a suggestion of another enthusiast and unknowingly wound up with toe-only contact. The heal was admittedly probably only a couple thousands away from contact, but I still had toe-only contact and my heavy foot on the brakes (I was young at the time) during the initial test drive resulted in four locked wheels on a crowned blacktop road with a sun heated surface at 50 mph in an unloaded 1-ton WDX Power-Wagon. Fortunately the grader ditch was relatively soft.

                What it boils down to is that at rest, all your shoe heals are going to be very close to the brake drums. All your shoe toes are going to be slightly further away from the brake drums. This is because the toes will move the furthest under pressure until contact and the heals will move hardly at all until contact as the whole shoe rotates in an arch about the axis through the lower pivot.

                When checking with the brakes under pressure, you should not be able to insert any feeler gauge either at the toe or the heal - or at the center of the shoe. This would indicate full and proper surface contact.

                Of course, each time you adjust either the heal or the toe, this action effects the other end. In which case that end will need to be adjusted again, and back to the other, and so on. It is a lesson in patience. But, it is well worth it to know you have stock brakes, adjusted correctly, that will stop a Power-Wagon very quickly. And, once all the shoes are adjusted correctly, they will wear correctly (notice I did not say evenly as the toes will actually wear slightly faster than the heals) and will stay in adjustment. The only further action will be to adjust the upper adjusters over time to maintain pedal travel in reaction to brake shoe and brake drum wear.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Clint Dixon View Post
                  I start with the drums and shoes off and play with the bottom cam adjusters until I can see exactly how they work. Adjust them so they pull the shoes into the smallest possible overall diameter. Then adjust them so they push the shoes out to the largest possible overall diameter. Watch the arrows and note which way they point at the two extremes. Then, initially set the lower cams somewhere in the middle. Arrows at this setting should be somewhat symmetrical to each other.

                  Next, play with the top adjusters with the shoes on but the drums off. You will find at the position where they pull the shoes into the smallest possible overall diameter, the "point" of the lobe will hit the back of the shoe creating what could be called a "hard stop" that limits further adjustment. Start in this position.

                  Put the drums on and get ready for some back and forth adjusting and readjusting and adjusting again. The object is to have the entire surface of each shoe make contact with the drum all at once, NOT the heal first (will result in a spongy feel as the shoes flex and deform under hydraulic pressure until they bend far enough to make full contact) and certainly NOT the toe first. Let me rephrase that...CERTAINLY NOT THE TOE FIRST. If you wind up with only the toes of the shoes contacting the drum, you will never get the heal to contact regardless of how much pressure you apply to them. Toe first contact results in toe-only contact and is like rolling down a hill in a little red wagon and throwing the tongue forward. The tongue of the wagon will probably dig into the ground and cause quite a wipeout. It is admittedly kind of fun to see Calvin and Hobbes do this, but not much fun when it happens to an actual 8-year old. Toe-only contact of the shoes can cause very erratic and unpredictable braking reaction to the point of possible unexpected locking up the wheels during a panic brake. Yes, stock Power-Wagon brakes are fully capable of locking up all four wheels at once.

                  The method of adjustment outlined in the service manuals involves a special tool that takes the place of the brake drum during shoe adjustment. If you are like the 99.9% of the rest of us who do not have one of these specialized tools, you will be measuring shoe-to-drum clearance more or less blindly with a feeler gauge stuck in through the inspection port on the front of each drum with all components except tires and wheels in place.

                  The actual clearance you need varies by how far the drums have been turned oversized and by how accurately the driveline shop arched the shoes to fit the newly surfaced drums. I will assume you did have the drums turned (surfaced) and the shoes arched to fit. If not, it would probably be a good idea to do so before reading further.

                  This clearance will be set with the feeler gauge (preferably not just one set, but two or more sets). Actual measured clearance will depend upon the variables I alluded to in the paragraph above. There is also some debate on what the actual dimensions should be. The first time I performed this adjustment on all new brake parts, I went with a suggestion of another enthusiast and unknowingly wound up with toe-only contact. The heal was admittedly probably only a couple thousands away from contact, but I still had toe-only contact and my heavy foot on the brakes (I was young at the time) during the initial test drive resulted in four locked wheels on a crowned blacktop road with a sun heated surface at 50 mph in an unloaded 1-ton WDX Power-Wagon. Fortunately the grader ditch was relatively soft.

                  What it boils down to is that at rest, all your shoe heals are going to be very close to the brake drums. All your shoe toes are going to be slightly further away from the brake drums. This is because the toes will move the furthest under pressure until contact and the heals will move hardly at all until contact as the whole shoe rotates in an arch about the axis through the lower pivot.

                  When checking with the brakes under pressure, you should not be able to insert any feeler gauge either at the toe or the heal - or at the center of the shoe. This would indicate full and proper surface contact.

                  Of course, each time you adjust either the heal or the toe, this action effects the other end. In which case that end will need to be adjusted again, and back to the other, and so on. It is a lesson in patience. But, it is well worth it to know you have stock brakes, adjusted correctly, that will stop a Power-Wagon very quickly. And, once all the shoes are adjusted correctly, they will wear correctly (notice I did not say evenly as the toes will actually wear slightly faster than the heals) and will stay in adjustment. The only further action will be to adjust the upper adjusters over time to maintain pedal travel in reaction to brake shoe and brake drum wear.
                  Thanks Clint.
                  I did see the special tool in the manual. I may try to make one but your thorough explanation helps. Thanks again.
                  John

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                  • #69
                    Brake lines are installed. Had a bit of figuring to do on the front as I had no pics of where the Tee mounted. I thought it mounted to the top of the pumpkin like the back but it mounts on the long stud at the top holding the differential to the housing. All is well that ends well.
                    Thanks to my son Jonathan and my son-in-law to be, Matt.
                    Attached Files

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                    • #70
                      brakes

                      Sorry to jump in so late on your brakes. Clint is spot on. Make sure you turn the drums with the hubs on them. It is a PITA, but make sure there is no rust build up between the hub and drum and tighten the lug nuts down tight to make sure they are turned true. Then don't separate the hub/drum. Also, if the drums have been turned too much you will never get the heel/toe right, it's like there is not enough adjustment and the gap is too much. I have seen shoes for sale that are oversize.

                      I've had the best luck pressure bleeding mine. I also installed a remote reservoir. The brake farthest from the MC is right rear. It's non-intuitive, but look at the crossover. Front right is last.


                      Texas Power Wagon museum has good info on the brakes too.

                      Wayne

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                      • #71
                        New Stainless Fuel Tank Install

                        I installed my new stainless fuel tank today. It was a bit more of a challenge than anticipated. The fuel filler neck on the new tank is lower on the tank than the stock tank, causing an interference on the frame rail. The tank had to be raised, but how. Vintage Power Wagons told me that it should only need about 1/4" spacer but mine seemed to require more.
                        I started by just attaching the lower straps and setting the tank into those from the top. this had the filler neck about 1/4" high but when I laid the top straps over the tank loosely there was a good 3/4-1" gap at each end. I also needed to keep in mind that the rubber filler hose and clamp had to fit over the neck of the filler which does not protrude as far from the tank as the original. It would help if it did then I could mount the tank a bit lower so that there was just barely a gap between the filler and the frame.
                        My solution without making spacers was to put longer bolts in the back so that i could put a nut to tighten just the lower strap, and then clamp down the upper strap with another nut using the first nut as the spacer. Similarly on the front, the first nut tightened the front of the strap stud, and then the upper straps were tightened down on top of that. The top straps are now used to clamp the fuel tank into the bottom ones. It may be more of a pain to remove once the truck is all done, but I don't foresee this ever happening in my lifetime. The tank is nice and snug. I also used some black Gaffer tape on the straps to add a bit of cushion to the powder coated straps.
                        Fuel lines are next.
                        I am wondering now if my rear rail is supposed to be on top of the frame with the leg up. It was not that way when I took it apart but who is to say someone didn't flip it sometime in the past. Does anyone know?
                        Attached Files

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by wayneh View Post
                          Sorry to jump in so late on your brakes. Clint is spot on. Make sure you turn the drums with the hubs on them. It is a PITA, but make sure there is no rust build up between the hub and drum and tighten the lug nuts down tight to make sure they are turned true. Then don't separate the hub/drum. Also, if the drums have been turned too much you will never get the heel/toe right, it's like there is not enough adjustment and the gap is too much. I have seen shoes for sale that are oversize.

                          I've had the best luck pressure bleeding mine. I also installed a remote reservoir. The brake farthest from the MC is right rear. It's non-intuitive, but look at the crossover. Front right is last.


                          Texas Power Wagon museum has good info on the brakes too.

                          Wayne
                          Thanks Wayne,
                          Texas Power Wagon does have the info. I attached as pdf here. My drums have good metal left. I will try this adjustment first before trying to turn the drums on the hubs. Man that seems hard. Good tip on right front being last. Thanks.
                          Attached Files

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                          • #73
                            Frame Extensions and Bumper Mounting

                            My truck came with a non stock HEAVY DUTY bumper. Obviously i discarded that and procured brackets and new bumpers from Vintage Power Wagon.
                            Tried to fit up today and ran into a snag.
                            It appears my bumper extensions had been cut to custom mount the previous bumper. Ah well, time to order new bumper extensions from VPW.
                            I am almost to $12,000 in parts from them in the last two years. I figure about another $5,000 to go for bedsides and interior.
                            Attached Files

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                            • #74
                              Winch Rebuild

                              I got my winch housing parts back from powder coat today. I had these done the same as the chassis, a semigloss black. Assembly begins with new bearings, seals, safety brake, keys, and pins.
                              Attached Files

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                              • #75
                                Looking good!

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