Floor jacks & jack stands

[Gordon Maney]

I just got my old friend back home, my Blackhawk 4-ton floor jack. It is an assembly of castings, and it has a headlight [no longer working] and a key lock to prevent it from being lowered. It was made in the late 1940's, and is its own kind of art.

It had been away to the repair company. Parts are extremely hard to find for it, but the repair guy found a seal kit for it in another part of the country. He said he may not be able to find another one, but he felt the jack would last as long as I ever wanted it.

During the time when I was not sure if it would be repairable, I found myself once again looking at options. I am not comfortable with a lot of the stuff sold new today, though I admit that I may not know of all the possibilities.

I learn that an old Weaver is still great, as the Weaver jacks have not really changed, and all parts are available. They are a quality device, even if they are single speed pumps.

I have a 1-1/4 jack for light automotive work, but my favorite size for four decades has been the 4-ton, long chassis jack. I recently acquired a 10-ton Snap-On, air assist, which was made by Lincoln.

The hydraulics field has been changed by a number of bigger fish eating smaller fish, and then most ultimately buying off shore. The high end OTC stuff is good, parts are available, and it is spendy. Weaver is still made here, and if you like Power Wagons, you would like Weaver jacks. If you like Power Wagons, you would like a 10-ton jack, other than the gross dimension and weight of the thing.

So.... what are you using now, what would you buy now, what do you see as the solution? Don't forget jack stands, as we need them, too.

I am still using four that I made in high school welding class, and no, I won't post a picture of them. :-) I do consider designing some more, having the steel fabbed, and welding them together.

I have mixed feelings about the ratcheting stands. They have lots of increments, they are fast, and......... if you are not paying attention, they can unlock and fall. Maybe just one notch, maybe all the way. Ratcheting stands must be used in a certain, careful way, and rapped soundly with a pipe or hammer to verify that they are set. I like pins. More positive.

Discuss jacks and stands at length. We all need this stuff and it all needs high capacity and safety.

[Ron in Indiana]

Gordon, I have a Napa 2 ton bumper air hoist that my Dad bought 35 +years ago when we were doing radiator repair work. It's still a good hoist but has difficulty lifting our newer 1 ton Dodge trucks and with the newer cars having nowhere to lift it's not prctical for those. I also have a 2 ton floor jack most likely made overseas but it does do it's job when called on. I have both pin type and ratcheting jack stands and as you stated they must be used with care. I use drive on ramps, not the cheap stamped ones, but real wood on occasion. My ultimate dream is to have a twin post vehicle hoist to be able to get anything including my 3500 in the air. I am fortunate to have the space for such a hoist but funding is another thing plus I think it would become a very popular item in the neighborhood. So for now it's a matter getting out the jack or hoist, placing the jackstands and rolling on a creeper. There's another subject, creepers, I thought I had a better one with 6 wheels but it still encounters problems under a truck. Has anyone found a decent creeper that rolls no matter what plus being moderately comfortable while working? The one I have does have an adjustable headrest which helps greatly.

[MoparNorm]

The best creeper is the "Bone". It wil roll very nicely over gravel, hoses, 2" drop offs etc. Not cheap but worth it.
MN

[JimmieD]

http://www.tools-r-us.biz/ntc/c/Creepers/_147_The_Bone_148_Me_19656.htm

[Gordon Maney]

The best creeper is the "Bone". It wil roll very nicely over gravel, hoses, 2" drop offs etc. Not cheap but worth it.
MN

What kind of wheels does it have to permit it to roll over gravel? How big are they?

[JimmieD]

One of the websites I checked made mention that the new and cheaper model of that creeper has 3" wheels, instead of the spendy one's 5" wheels, so that's apparently the answer to rolling resistance.

[MoparNorm]

Yes, and they are composite wheels for smooth rolling.
From an ad, "Rough Rider Creeper
Heavy duty 5" diameter wheels. 1-3/8" wide floatation type tread doesn't sink into soft surfaces. 2-1/2" swivel bearing compared to 1-1/4" on conventional creepers. 1-3/4" ground clearance"
MN

[Gordon Maney]

I am bringing this back to the top..... we need some more comment on jack stands.

What do you have? Do you consider building some?

These are possibly the best quality I have found by searching.

http://www.asedeals.com/jack_stands.html

I have had the ratcheting kind, and they have their virtues, but they require considerable attention to verify that they are securely locked in a notch.

You can see an example of that kind here:

http://www.asedeals.com/jackstands.html

[Gordon Maney]

A new form of deception..... I just discovered a vendor listing stands as 6 ton capacity, and further study of their literature revealed that the stands were 3 ton, listed as 6 tons [per pair].

[JimmieD]

Those are some good loking stands and they sound like top quality. I currently use the ratcheting type but use 3.5 ton in a 1/2 ton application. I have some home made ones almost finished that are made from ASTM boiler pipe, very heavy walled stuff!

One very strong caution for all regarding use of any jackstand:

NEVER ATTEMPT TO LEVEL A VEHICLE WITH JACKS AND JACKSTANDS!

Place it on level ground and THEN lift it, or don't try to lift it. Just because you have established a dead level frame line doesn't mean you've overcome gravitational force!!! In other words downhill is still down hill and any load will choose the path of least resistance, which in this case is downhill....

[pieter]

[/QUOTE]
You can see an example of that kind here:
http://www.asedeals.com/jackstands.html[/QUOTE]

Gordon,
I was going to buy the jack stands that are at the bottom of the page. They had a screw adjustment that would allow you to fine tune your heights.
I thought that would be nice if you are trying to level out a frame/truck on a concrete slab that might not be perfectly level. When I ordered them though, they said they were no longer being made. But then I got a call back that said they were just out of inventory for 2 months.

As far as jacks, I can't for the life of me seem to find anything decent that costs an arm and a leg. Many manufacturers like the Jack Stands seems to state the capacity of a Jack by jsut saying "3", but not knowing what exactly "3" means. Tons, Kilo's, lbs. Since many seem to be made outside of the US, you kind of have to take it with a grain of salt.

I have a 2ton floor jack from Sears. I like it and paid $110. I do not like the new jacks that will raise to load in one pump. They do not work putting in transmissions. Some would say buy a transmission jack but well I just don't have the $$$ or the space to store it. I do have to change out the seals for the second time on this jack. I have done it once before and it is about time for it's second. I've had this jack about 10 years so far.

I will send a picture of some jack stands that Roger King used when he put Rockwells under his Town Wagon... They are massive.

[pieter]

Let's see if this works...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmvliet/183748010/

These are some jack Stands and I'll use those words mildly that Roger Kings' son welded up for him when he did the Rockwell Conversion for his Town wagon. I believe they are about 6"x2"x1/8" tubing. Probably stand about 5'-0" tall...

[Russ Erickson]

This one belongs to Emery Bond of Evanston, Wyoming. Emery and his brothers owned the Studebaker dealership here from the early 50's until Studebaker closed down. I didn't get any info from this jack, but I probably can find the manufacturer and weight rating if anyone is interested.

[Gordon Maney]

Isn't that neat? Purely mechanical.

I had the opportunity to use a jack like that many years ago.

[Bruce]

Wow Russ, that is some jack, I remember a couple just like that, no pistons, just mechanical.

[Bruce]

The best creeper is the "Bone". It wil roll very nicely over gravel, hoses, 2" drop offs etc. Not cheap but worth it.

MN

It looks like there are several styles to choose from?

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200223624_200223624

[MoparNorm]

If you have the money, go with the bigger wheeled model, it rolls the nicest. I think that they are 5" or 6" as opposed to the standard 4" wheel size.

[Bruce]

It Worked!
What I was talking about was the money diference... Amazon should have been less expensive?
JMHO,

[Longhunter7]

MoparNorm,

See, I told you could do it! Nice avatar!

P.S. I didn't mean to hi-JACK this thread!

[counciller]

I was wondering if any one has had a racheting jackstand collapse on them? Its all i own. I have had a jack fail while jacking up a vehicle - seal went and down she came - no injuries. Also these M37 trucks are the heaviest thing iv ever owned - what size jack and stand should i be using?

[MoparNorm]

It Worked!
What I was talking about was the money diference... Amazon should have been less expensive?
JMHO,

I've seen the standard sell for $99 direct from Bone and at Sears, for the one pictured for $74 in your post. $129 for the big wheel version, so those prices are not bad.

[MoparNorm]

I was wondering if any one has had a racheting jackstand collapse on them? Its all i own. I have had a jack fail while jacking up a vehicle - seal went and down she came - no injuries. Also these M37 trucks are the heaviest thing iv ever owned - what size jack and stand should i be using?

Do you mean that the jack stand worked and caught the vehicle, when the jack failed, or?
You have to be VERY careful jack stand shopping (this can almost be posted in the MADE IN AMERICA thread). Most of those yellow/orange stands are chinese, very poor quality and very poor castings on the ratchet. Look for American Made stands, more money...but it's like the old motorcycle saying, "If you have a $10 head, buy a $10 helmet"
"If you want to see Confucius sooner rather than later, buy a chinese jack stand?

[MoparNorm]

MoparNorm,

See, I told you could do it! Nice avatar!

P.S. I didn't mean to hi-JACK this thread!

Thanks!
PS: you're hi-JACK STANDING.....= )

[counciller]

You are so right there - guarantee dont mean much when 6000 lbs is collapsed on your noggin. It is really difficult to find domestic goods in Canada as much im sure as the USA. I would never climb under a car with a jack alone but i do it all the time with jackstands. Makes you think

[counciller]

Do you mean that the jack stand worked and caught the vehicle, when the jack failed, or?
You have to be VERY careful jack stand shopping (this can almost be posted in the MADE IN AMERICA thread). Most of those yellow/orange stands are chinese, very poor quality and very poor castings on the ratchet. Look for American Made stands, more money...but it's like the old motorcycle saying, "If you have a $10 head, buy a $10 helmet"
"If you want to see Confucius sooner rather than later, buy a chinese jack stand?
The jack failed on the way up - i never got to put the stands under - scared the c*** out of me.

[MoparNorm]

No Doubt!
Always work around your vehicle as if it was going to fall any second, because it can!

[JimmieD]

Most times when I'm using jackstands I also use 2 bottlejacks, one on each side to lift. I let the jack down so the truck rests on the jackstands. It sometimes settles and moves a hair coming down on stands, so I then reposition bottlejacks as needed and pump them both back up to a light pressure against frame. It's a fail-safe, and highly unlikely for a vehicle to roll off all the jacking machines before I can get out from under.

I also use wheel chocks to prevent rolling forward or backward, even on dead level ground.

[Bruce]

Again! This is a very good thread, almost scary! I have a chinese pair I use only for the golf cart, sort of over kill. I do need to invest in a decent/safe set!

[MoparNorm]

When I install suspensions, I need the frame supported, the axle supported and a floor jack to move components around. Nothing worse than having the whole rig set-up like that and then find out the new suspension needs 2 more inches..... usually a job will require 3 sets of stands, a transmission jack and a floor jack, plus the obligatory blocks and keeping the tires on the vehicle whenever possible. Usually they get in the way, but I always keep the opposite end tires on, even with the jack stands under there, I figure 10 extra minutes vs 25 years in the vegetable ward...or worse...is worth the time...

[JimmieD]

Came out one morning years ago to work on my car in front of the house. Fine '56 Lincoln by the way. The neighbor at the end of of the block was in his garage working on his pickup truck as usual. His hous was at the corner so the open garage door faced me, 3/4 block away.

I was getting pretty irritated after a while 'cause he had his radio blaring country music in his garage at full deafening volume, so loud I could hardly think. I was into rock back then haha. After about 2 hours of this I heard firetrucks coming and looked for smoke: nuthin'. A minute or two later they came roaring down the street to the neighbor's house.

He had jacked up his pickup with a bumper jack and got under to work on the clutch linkage or something. It had rolled off and he had been laying there with his head pinned to the concrete by the crossmember, screaming himself hoarse at me as he watched me working on my car! Couldn't hear him for the radio.

He wasn't badly hurt but you know what? I NEVER heard him playing his radio again while he worked on his truck. Hope he learned the rest of the lesson too.

[MoparNorm]

Ha!
That reminds me, Hi-Lift Jacks; great for tricky situations off-road, but VERY unstable! You need to carefully think through ANY maneuver with them as they hinge at the bottom and can ruin your day if you're not paying attention.
...now to crank up George Straight and get back under there......

[Sickcall]

Hi-Lift jacks are great for off road for doing many things but they are very unstable. I would never get near a truck that is only lifted with one as it could go either way at any time.

I have a stack of short wood timber of different sizes I use to block up what ever I am working on, longer 6 x 12's for the bottom. I have some jack stands I use here and there but I never fully rely on them.

My 3 ton floor jack is about ready for the dump as it only lifts on half of the stroke. I have to do a lot of pumping to get it to go up and it is full of fluid. I don't think any of the stuff sold today is worth repairing. Usually it is cheaper to replace. At work I never allow anyone to repair a chain fall as it is not worth the liability. We cut the chains off and throw them away, ordering a new replacement.

[JimmieD]

For those that are so inclined here's a couple of links for repair parts for Hi-Lifts and most hydraulic jacks.

http://blackhawkparts.bigstep.com/generic34.html

http://www.hi-lift.com/products/parts_services.htm

[Bruce]

Sickcall, You hit the nail on the head!

"My 3 ton floor jack is about ready for the dump as it only lifts on half of the stroke. I have to do a lot of pumping to get it to go up and it is full of fluid. I don't think any of the stuff sold today is worth repairing. Usually it is cheaper to replace. At work I never allow anyone to repair a chain fall as it is not worth the liability. We cut the chains off and throw them away, ordering a new replacement."
What is America becoming, a mostly disposable country, what a waste!

JimmieD, What a great link, it appears they carry most every make/model?
Thanks,

[JimmieD]

Great, Bruce, I hope it helps! There's others too, if you do a Yahoo Search for 'jack repair parts'. I got all kinds of hits but only posted the one. I have about 15 or more jacks to restore and all AMERICAN made or quality foreign made. Rather pay $30-$40 to repair one of those than buy junk for the same price!

[MoparNorm]

JimmieD
Speaking of jacked up, my emails keep bouncing back from your mail service, tell your tech guy to feed the hamster again....= )

[JimmieD]

Thanks, Norm, will do....

[Bruce]

Great, Bruce, I hope it helps! There's others too, if you do a Yahoo Search for 'jack repair parts'. I got all kinds of hits but only posted the one. I have about 15 or more jacks to restore and all AMERICAN made or quality foreign made. Rather pay $30-$40 to repair one of those than buy junk for the same price!

I had to run thru Sears Monday, stopped to look at some of my favorite stuff.......every jack stand was made in China, as was most of the things I looked @? I am not going to rant again, just look closer at most things I think I need?

[MoparNorm]

Never thought I'd long for the day of good old Japanese imported junk.....the chinese junk makes the Japanese junk look like tools made by Rockwell..........

Yep, label shopping is what I do now, takes me about 5 days to find something made in the USA, but it's a sense of accomplishment we you find a good quality American Made product.

Here is one of my favorite companies, note their location.
http://www.lislecorp.com/about_us.cfm

[JimmieD]

We know it's not going to change until American Consumers STOP BUYING FOREIGN JUNK. The only way to effect change is by hitting them where it hurts the most: in their bottom line. Politicians on all sides sold us out, major vendors [stores] sold us out, and Wall Street sold us out. The last stand is on the streets of the USA where the few remaining Americans can still turn the tide of economic collapse and the gutting of our country.

BOYCOTT FOREIGN JUNK!