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Doc Dave
12-03-2005, 05:00 PM
I am getting ready to start up my rebuilt 230. A machinist over at the pilot house site said you get a significant amount more wear by not lubing the engine with a pre-luber. Without it, you rely on assembly lube and the oil pump to get oil all throught the engine fast enough.
In the picture, for the inlet, I have a brass cross fitting with air input coming in to it through a gate valve , pressure release on other side, guage on top and pipe nipple on bottom down to the tank. The tank I drilled and tapped for a 1/4"npt.
At the other end I have a brass T fitting attached to the tank at the bottom of the T with a nipple like before, but I have soldered into the nipple a piece of copper tubing reaching down to 1/4" of the bottom of the tank. I have a plug on the top of the T, and then on the side an outlet to the engine with another gate valve and a piece of stainless screen from a washing machine fitting in the opening to trap any stuff from the tank.
From this gate valve I ran rubber line to a T fitting that I can insert at the union of the oil pressure line, which is near the starter on the 230.
WIthin 5 minutes 5 quarts of oil were distributed through the engine.
You pressurize the tank to about 20psi.
You can watch your trucks oil pressure guage come right up and stay as the oil is flowing into the engine.
The only thing I need to modify now is to bolster the area around the holes in the tank with a welded in thick washer tapped the same to strengthen the job.
Also, remember that the brass cross and T from the auto parts store is SAE thread. The pipe nipples and hose barb are NPT, so I tapped the SAE parts where needed for NPT.

JimmieD
12-03-2005, 05:18 PM
Hey, wait a minute: you sure that isn't just a leftover prop from the movie 'Rocket Man'?

Looks good and a great idea. I'm loosely planning to include an onboard preluber in this current buildup of my Town Wagon as it's been said that something over 75% of engine wear occurs at startup! Thanks for sharing....

JimmieD

dbemis
12-04-2005, 08:21 AM
Doc Dave,
How do make sure that there is no chance of the tank exploding when you first drill it? Is there a safe way to remove the original valve etc.? Looks like a great idea, just don't want anyone to blow themselves up.
David

JimmieD
12-04-2005, 10:31 AM
I got this from the welding forum at Miller Welds or Hobart or one of those. Several people responded:

Propane is a gas which will condense into a liquid under pressure in a closed container. When that container is opened to atmosphere and fully vented the propane returns to a gaseous state, though heavier than air, and will evaporate at warm temperatures. Once the tank is purged by evaporation, and even turned upside down to fully empty, it is safe to drill. You can use propane tanks for barbecues or whatever because there are no flammable residues left after venting. But, like the Do-It-Yourself surgeon said, suture self....

Doc Dave
12-04-2005, 10:51 AM
The propane plant had removed the valve (screwed it out) . I washed the tank out with soapy water and rinsed that out, then used a solvent to rinse some more, then let it sit and dry thouroughly with the hole for the valve open.
I could not smell any propane after this, and felt it was safe to drill. I used a magnetic mechanics probe to gather filings that fell in, then rinsed the tank out again with solvent. I bought a pipe plug so I could close the hole after adding oil.

M5tankdriver
01-10-2006, 04:19 PM
So are you going to use the engine pre-luber on the initial startup only or are you going to mount it in your truck?

Doc Dave
01-10-2006, 05:54 PM
Just for the start up.
I put a modified version (no drilling or welding needed) of my tank on Joe Cimoch's site, under the "Best of the FOrum"
The only thing missing is that it does not show how it is plumbed in the truck, but I already described how I put a "t" at the union in the oil pressure line, and ran the oil in there.
Dave

pgrey
06-05-2006, 07:32 PM
Just for the start up. Dave

I'm new to Dodges, but on the Chevy race motors I've had, I'd pull the distributor and use a drill with a long screwdriver blade chucked up to turn the oil pump until pressure built up, then I was good to go.

You could also pull the plugs and crank the engine until you get pressure. Pulling the plugs makes it easy on the starter.

Both of these are easier than building an Accusump copy and just as effective.

Regards,

Peter

JimmieD
06-05-2006, 11:21 PM
I have to disagree. The Acusump type of Preluber is not intended only for protection of the engine at initial startup after a rebuild. Instead it is designed to prelube the enitre oiling system under pressure each time you start the engine! Most mechanical engineers will tell you that 75% of the wear on engine parts is that few seconds after startup while the engine builds oil pressure.

In racing there is always the possiblity of oil starvation on extreme turns or very steep grades. The Acusump type Preluber then kicks in with a burst of full pressure oil to save the bearings instead of smoking the entire engine from starvation. It's a whole different type of system than the practices used to prep a new engine. It can add many thousands of miles to an engine's life span.

JimmieD

pgrey
06-05-2006, 11:48 PM
I have to disagree. The Acusump type of Preluber is not intended only for protection of the engine at initial startup after a rebuild. Instead it is designed to prelube the enitre oiling system under pressure each time you start the engine! JimmieD

I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're making. An Accusump can do both, and while I admit to not spending a ton of time reading the posts about what the original poster was making so maybe my comment about being an Accusump copy was misplaced, but it looks like he built something to pressurize the oiling system. An Accusump will do that and (and you said) also acts as a sump on those cars that don't have a dry sump system and are starving the oil pickup.

My post was meant to suggest that there are cheaper, less involved ways to pre-lube a just-built engine. Running the oil pressure to max pressure while spinning it with no plugs will get same results (assuming the engine builder has done his job and lubed everything properly) as an oil preluber and the only cost is ten minutes worth of time.

Regards,

Peter

JimmieD
06-06-2006, 12:27 AM
From that point of view I will have to disagree with my former disagreement and therefore attempt to be more agreeable, even if it is against my baser nature. You're absolutely right regarding ONLY engine prep! I'm absolutely tired and misread your post....off to beddy-bye. :~ )

pgrey
06-06-2006, 01:04 AM
From that point of view I will have to disagree with my former disagreement and therefore attempt to be more agreeable, even if it is against my baser nature. You're absolutely right regarding ONLY engine prep! I'm absolutely tired and misread your post....off to beddy-bye. :~ )

I agree with what ever it was you said. ;)

Peter

JimmieD
06-06-2006, 08:31 AM
Wow, Peter, got some sleep and then checked out your website! Most excellent. Very impressive stuff there and I can really relate to the statement made by each piece. Gearhead gear to the max!

http://www.machinedthings.com/v2/?home

My first real mechanic's job was with Lotus and then pit mechanic a bit later, back in Clark's day [L-10's I think?] when Colin was at his peak. I can feel the Formula influence in your work like the smell of Castrol in the pits as a memory of sights and sounds hard to describe but never forgotten. Andre Gessler was my buddy over at Carrol Shelby's works during the Cobra days, did you perchance know that onery rapscallion?

Most impressed by your concept of the inter-dependent relationships in your vocation's outpourings and truly admire your contribution to the heart of things mechanical. Very nice, and thanks for bringing back some great memories.....

JimmieD

pgrey
06-06-2006, 04:15 PM
Andre Gessler was my buddy over at Carrol Shelby's works during the Cobra days, did you perchance know that onery rapscallion?

Most impressed by your concept of the inter-dependent relationships in your vocation's outpourings and truly admire your contribution to the heart of things mechanical. Very nice, and thanks for bringing back some great memories.....

JimmieD

Wow. Thanks so much for the kind words! I don't know Andre. I didn't get fully involved in racing until the late '70s, although I followed it closely. As a kid I kept a scrapbook of how Porsche did in the World Championship of Makes, and of course I followed Trans Am closely too. It sounds like you had lots of fun and got to meet some very neat folks.

It's responses like yours that put a big smile on my face. You've made my day!

Regards,

Peter

DDEMILLE
06-07-2006, 11:39 PM
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I've always thought a pre-luber was for every day, daily driver use, not just racers or aircraft. Pre-lubing an engine for the initial start after a rebuild is very important, I'm sure, but the thousands of starts thereafter are important, too. Circulating oil under pressure before the crank is turned is what will prevent the wear we're discussing.
Removing the distributor or cranking an engine without the load (spark plugs removed) is not practical for most uses. While cranking an engine without load is better than with load it still ignores the fact that the engine is initially turning on relatively dry bearings. I'll take a pre-luber anyday. Just my 2 cents worth.
Doug

JimmieD
06-08-2006, 12:26 AM
Oh, I agree completely, Doug!

I have wanted to install a pre-luber for the exact reasons you specify, and not just for priming the pump and oil galleries before a rebuild. But in agreement with Peter, if one is mainly interested in priming an engine after a rebuild then why go to the bother of fabricating a preluber when a drill motor will do the job? I think it may boil down to a fun project to do in addition to a rebuild, and thereafter to have a nice little piece of custom equipment ready made for the subsequent rebuilds on other engines?

Therefore I don't disagree with any of the thought lines here, but if I get around to fabbing one up it's for everyday use on every dry start....

JimmieD