Vial type levels

[Gordon Maney]

I have a number of levels, but I am thinking about buying a long level, like five or six feet, for installing door casings and doing some leveling on a floor.

So many of the levels any more are poorly made and cheap looking. Do you have an opinion as to a brand of level to buy?

[pieter]

That is an interesting question. I think anyone would say that those long wooden levels with steel/brass edge strips would be the best.

I personally could no justify the price. I bought a 2' and a 4' aluminum I-Beam type level from Lowe's. The one main reason that I bought these is that one side of the level has a magnetic strip so it will stick to metal. Working on trucks in the garage I will find great use in that feature alone. Plus being able to find level.

Pieter

[Ron in Indiana]

Gordon, I have used many different types of levels over the years but the best I have found to date are Stabilla levels. They offer "jammer sets" which is what I use it consists of a 32", a 48" and a 78" level which will do what you want for any project especially hanging doors. These are box aluminum construction so light in weight and guarenteed accurate. They do come at a price but as with anything pennywise or pound foolish. You will not be disappointed in these levels.

[MoparNorm]

I agree with Ron, I have a 6'-11", 5' , 3' and 2'.
I also have the wooden ones, but with time they can warp, the metal frame can also loosen as the wood shrinks. The aluminum levels are much more diminsionally stable. They are very costly, but it is my profession. I don't buy foreign tools to work on vehicles and I don'y buy cheap foreign tools to work on buildings. ( I do have expensive foreign tools though...ha!ha!)
MN

[Chris Olson]

My favorite level is my Digital one.. made by Smart tool
(In the U.S.)
My absolute favorite feature is the setting where it beeps at 0.00 deg. (level) so I can just set it on the thing to be leveled and proceed to lift and pry without needing to always be looking at it.

[HWooldridge]

I think aluminum is best but I only have two 3 foot levels for quick work and use a laser for big stuff. I think the really long levels are fine if you already have one or can get one cheap at an estate sale or such but if it was me, I'd look hard at lasers.

(I also have a Starrett machine level - boy, it's fun trying to get that one plumb...)

[Cheyenne Dave]

For floor leveling, I always use a water level. I believe I mentioned that I had written a piece for Fine Home Building on the subject. I'll try to dig it up and send it to you. Once your floors are level, you will do most of your trim work by measuring from the floor. Door jambs are plumbed with a level, and trim is registered on the jambs. If you have new windows in your place, they should have been installed level and plumb. All your extension jambs and trim will reference from the window unit.

[Gordon Maney]

I did buy a Stabila jammer set, the larger one, consisting of two levels. Beautiful stuff.

I have done doors both ways, starting with just a casing set, installing it in the rough opening, mortising the door edge for hinges; I have also used pre-hung. If it was not for the mortising for the hinges part, I think I might prefer starting with just the casing [maybe jam set would be your language....]

The new thing I am doing this time is that I am using 3 inch trim screws that have a square socket drive. They really work nicely, and you can back them out conveniently if necessary.

That is a good thing, because..... and I should not admit this.... I had evaluated the rough opening and found it to be pretty plumb. I then managed to get the hinged side of the casing closer to the rough opening at the bottom than at the top.

This way I can back the screws out and drive shims in to bring it back out. I have moved a run of the casing away from the rough opening before, when using casing nails, but it pulls the head through the material too far, and I don't really care for that.

I use screws, and possibly long screws, in many special wood fabrications, and have ever since I first tried them.

[RickL]

Gordon,

Never bought a level or most of my tools new for that matter.

With the dying off of the last generation that actually worked on thier own stuff there are tools being dumped everday by the families cleaning out.

I just had a bunch of old Rigid plumbing tools given to me as I expressed interest and no one else wanted them.

I always used a length of channel or flat board with my short level if I needed to find level over a longer distance.

Rick

[Gordon Maney]

I have used your method many times in the past, putting a short level on a long piece of material.

Your comment about tools is true. There are machinists at work who sell measuring tools for ridiculously small sums, as they don't need them and nobody wants to buy them.

I think putting an ad in the paper could net a person some pretty good stuff.

[RickL]

Once you get a rep as a wrench turner stuff tends to follow you home.

Rick

[MoparNorm]

Originally posted by HWooldridge
I think aluminum is best but I only have two 3 foot levels for quick work and use a laser for big stuff. I think the really long levels are fine if you already have one or can get one cheap at an estate sale or such but if it was me, I'd look hard at lasers.

(I also have a Starrett machine level - boy, it's fun trying to get that one plumb...)

The two long levels in my collection are for hanging doors, 7' and taller doors and the mid size level is for 6'-8" doors. The level serves two purposes, first to level and then as a straight edge for the jamb and casing. The smaller levels are for the door and window heads.
For slabs and grading I use my laser, but they are not yet acurate enough or flexible enough in their placement to use for doors and windows. The lasers are getting better though, I have a smaller system for setting ceiling grids, but they require damaging the wall at some location to mount them and a water level is faster and more accurate. Some of the guys are using laser measuring tools but I don't trust them yet, "plus or minus a half inch", or "close enough" is not in my vocabulary.
MN

[Doc Dave]

Gordon et al,
Lately I have been perusing ebay when I want to get a top quality USA name brand tool but don't need a brand new one.
I recently got a nice torque wrench and have picked up a few very nice older wrenches. I also got some machinist measuring calipers at a flea market the other day for next to nothing.
JUst a thought.

[MoparNorm]

...Is that shipping a level may pretty much ruin it. Quality levels cannot be dropped, stressed, tossed etc. and retain their accuratecy. Of course we know that shippers NEVER do those things to packages....= )
I keep my levels in ABS pipes or secured in holders in my truck, I get nervous wheever anyone even gets near them. One false move and they are equal to a $19.95 chinese special at Harbor Freight!
MN

[Gordon Maney]

Originally posted by Doc Dave
Gordon et al,
Lately I have been perusing ebay when I want to get a top quality USA name brand tool but don't need a brand new one.
I recently got a nice torque wrench and have picked up a few very nice older wrenches. I also got some machinist measuring calipers at a flea market the other day for next to nothing.
JUst a thought.

I think that is a great idea, but I admit to being an Ebay virgin, never having bought or sold anything there.

[Gordon Maney]

Originally posted by MoparNorm
...Is that shipping a level may pretty much ruin it. Quality levels cannot be dropped, stressed, tossed etc. and retain their accuratecy. Of course we know that shippers NEVER do those things to packages....= )
I keep my levels in ABS pipes or secured in holders in my truck, I get nervous wheever anyone even gets near them. One false move and they are equal to a $19.95 chinese special at Harbor Freight!
MN

I have heard of people using the plastic pipe as you describe. Do you have press on caps at the ends, or how did you do that.

Do you feel the vibration as the truck goes down the road is an issue in that hard pipe?

[MoparNorm]

Originally posted by Gordon Maney
I have heard of people using the plastic pipe as you describe. Do you have press on caps at the ends, or how did you do that.

Do you feel the vibration as the truck goes down the road is an issue in that hard pipe?

I used ABS sewer pipe, and glued screw on caps (sewer clean-out caps) on the ends. You can cut the tube to the exact length, plus a couple of inches, then pack the ends with foam rubber padding to keep the level from moving abruptly. My Big Ram doesn't vibrate, but I suppose carrying the level in your W300 would require more padding....= )
MN

[Cheyenne Dave]

...that all levels are shipped, unless u pick them up at the factory.
Most levels today are tuneable. So long as the beam remains straight and true, there is no excuse for an inaccurate level. I always tune mine before the start of every project... it only takes a minute or two.

DAB

[HWooldridge]

Cheyenne Dave,

How do you tune a level? Do you have a master level that you compare to?

[Cheyenne Dave]

Let say you have a 4' level that you want to tune, or "zero". First, you need an area of wall that can be drawn upon...there always seems to be an area of unpainted (or soon-to-be painted) drywall, somewhere in the house.

Placing the level in the plumb position against the wall, draw what the level tells you is a plumb line. Turning the level over, using the same edge you used for the first line and starting at the top of the first line, draw a second plumb line. If the level is true, you will have drawn the second line directly over the first.

If the level is untrue, there will be two lines that start at the same point but then diverge to make a long "V". Lets say there is 1/2" an inch between the two lines at he widest point. Find the exact center between these two line, in this case it will be 1/4", and make a mark.

Still using the same edge of the level, lay one end of your level at the point where both lines converge, and the other end on the center mark you made. Holding the level firmly on these two points, loosen the vial screws and adjust the vial until it reads dead plumb, then retighten the vial. Repeat the process untill you are comfortable that the level reads plumb no matter which way you lay it on the wall.

The same process is used to zero the instument for level as for plumb. I mark my level so I always know which edge I used to zero the level. It's probably unessesary but thats my procedure.

DAB

[Gordon Maney]

I have an old, 24 inch Stanley, cast aluminum level that was my father's. It has more sentimental value than actual value.

The problem with that one is that the vials are glued in place.

[MoparNorm]

Originally posted by Cheyenne Dave
...that all levels are shipped, unless u pick them up at the factory.
Most levels today are tuneable. So long as the beam remains straight and true, there is no excuse for an inaccurate level. I always tune mine before the start of every project... it only takes a minute or two.

DAB

Hi Dave,
A good practice, that I also use, but neglected to mention here.
I was more concerned with breaking a vial or damaging a vial while being shipped by an e-bayer since they may haphazardly pack the sold level. Shippers pack their levels pretty well, but I've had a few vials that were ruptured and no amount of adjustment will repair that.
Dave brings up a good point, make sure that any level which you buy has adjustable vials, make sure that the vials are snug and not loose and that all the screws are present, there are normally four screws or small sex bolts (don't get any ideas Judd, it has nothing to do with sheep!) These will sometimes loosen and make a seemingly ruined level easily repairable.
Daves repair method will work very well, you can also use a table or horizontal surface once you get adept at the adjustment.
MN

[MoparNorm]

Originally posted by Gordon Maney
I have an old, 24 inch Stanley, cast aluminum level that was my father's. It has more sentimental value than actual value.

The problem with that one is that the vials are glued in place.

...most Masons levels or levels with wood cores are glued in place, it has nothing to do with quality, it's more to do with the manufacturing technique used.

MN