Big Welders Cont..

[Jonas Smith]

Well, my neighbor is a iron worker and brought home some big I beams and some 1/2" rod for me to burn on my new welder. If you have never burned anything that big before, let me tell you, it's quite an electrifing experience.

Leather armor is a must! I tried out the air arc attachment and smoked a good pair of dungarees.

May sound wierd, but for a guy who has never welded with anything other than a 135 amp MIG, it was a lot of fun!
I did some other smaller stuff and have found this as compared to a MIG: It takes a lot more skill to get good welds on the DC stick than on the MIG.

I weld outside, and it's always windy where I live. The stick shields itself better in strong winds. I've literally had to cup my hand around where I was welding to shield the Argon from blowing away. You dont have to do that with the stick, but there is a lot more cleanup of the weld and splatter when you are done on the stick.

[Bruce]

Hey Jonas,
It sounds like you had some fun with that I-beam? I need to make a better bench - worktable. My 3200 Lincoln most likely couldn't handle that big stuff, you think? I might practice some more tomorrow, after my orthopedic appointment?
C ya',

[Gordon Maney]

Originally posted by Jonas Smith

May sound weird, but for a guy who has never welded with anything other than a 135 amp MIG, it was a lot of fun!
I did some other smaller stuff and have found this as compared to a MIG: It takes a lot more skill to get good welds on the DC stick than on the MIG.

I weld outside, and it's always windy where I live. The stick shields itself better in strong winds. I've literally had to cup my hand around where I was welding to shield the Argon from blowing away. You don't have to do that with the stick, but there is a lot more cleanup of the weld and splatter when you are done on the stick.

There is a statement that welders and welding instructors make, and it explains why welding instruction often begins with oxyacetylene and arc welding with a stick electrode. If you can weld with gas you can TIG (tungsten inert gas) weld and if you can weld with a stick you can MIG (metal inert gas) weld. Because, in each case, there is more skill required for the process initially mentioned.

Oxyacetylene welding uses the torch for heat and supplements the weld zone with a filler rod. TIG welding uses a nonconsumable, tungsten electrode that makes the heating arc, and a filler rod is used to supplement the weld zone. Heat control, heat control, heat control....

Particularly if someone has set the amperage and wire feed rate on the MIG, most people can run some pretty nice beads quite rapidly. Welding with a stick electrode is another matter. Beginners spend quite a bit of time just unsticking the electrode from the work piece, and I mean repeatedly. It?s very dark in that helmet, then it is bright for just a moment, and then it is dark, and the transformer is humming vigorously.

There is still LOTS of stick run in this country, with the predominant application being construction. One reason for that is the shield gas issue you raise. Although, there is flux core wire that you can run with a MIG welder. The flux core bead is not as neat as the gas shielded bead. Another reason is that with a stick welder all you have to run up the side of the building is the cables. With MIG you have to get the shield gas cylinder up there, or run a hose. Awkward matters. I don't know if this is still true, but I read in a welding trade magazine some years ago that there was still more stick welding going on in this country than any other process, and I think that is because of construction and pipeline work.

Keep practicing....

By the way, I have never run a 1/2 inch rod in my life. That is a big one.

[Jonas Smith]

I have heard that I can run a TIG setup off this DC stick machine. I know that the cleanest welds come from the TIG process. Good for welding aluminum and other alloys. I thought the TIG use a stick though. I have never welded with a oxy-acetelene rig, only used the cutting torch, and for heating up really stubborn WDX bolts.

What is difference between running a positive or negative ground when stick welding? Is there certian situations that call for either?

Aint this stuff great????

The Fargo Swivel Frame truck I have came from the Imperial Pipeline Company LTD, up in Canada. It's got big handpainted signs on the doors that say as much. I think this welder might make a nice accessory in the bed of this truck EH???

"I'm living my life, and trying to be the man my dog thinks I am."

[Gordon Maney]

Originally posted by Jonas Smith
I have heard that I can run a TIG setup off this DC stick machine. I know that the cleanest welds come from the TIG process. Good for welding aluminum and other alloys. I thought the TIG use a stick though.

I have never welded with a oxy-acetylene rig, only used the cutting torch, and for heating up really stubborn WDX bolts.

What is difference between running a positive or negative ground when stick welding? Is there certain situations that call for either?



To have the best TIG setup, you need a high frequency adapter. If you do not have a high frequency adapter, you have what is called a scratch start TIG, meaning you have to touch the electrode to the work piece to start your arc. With the high freq, you just hold the electrode near the work piece and step on the pedal.

TIG uses a pointed tungsten electrode, sharpened to a nice point, and the arc exists between the tip of it and the work piece. That makes the heat to make the weld puddle, and that weld is supplemented with filler rod that looks to you like wire. The rod can be of varying diameters.

In food grade stainless fabrication where a polished smoothness of the weldment is necessary, you will sometimes see a TIG torch used to finish a MIG weld before polishing. The TIG torch is effectively passed along the surface of the MIG bead, smoothing off the ripples of the bead.

A good TIG operator can make stuff that is absolutely like jewelry, beautiful stuff.

Stick machines can be transformer machines or motor driven. In either case, they can be AC or DC, with the DC transformer units typically capable of both. The average home user has an AC transformer welder. Different rods, best suited for different applications/materials, will run at DC straight or DC reverse polarity. A man who is a pipeline welder or ironworker will typically know a lot about running DC welders and making suitable rod selections.

Years ago I remember watching a man, using an acetylene torch, weld up a fabricated crane on the back of a truck. It was a beautiful thing. Also, look at /2 BMW motorcycles, made from the mid 1955 up to 1969; they have gas welded frames and they are beautiful, displaying perfect welds made by human beings, not welding robots. You could put one of those motorcycles in your living room as sculpture in the round.

[HWooldridge]

I'm going on memory but recall that DCRP (reverse polarity) gives you a forceful, deep arc and DCSP (straight polarity) gives you a soft wide arc. I've got a 50/50 chance on this but think DCEN (electrode negative) is RP. Most rods run best on RP. An E6010 is a good all purpose rod that is DCRP only but the 6011 will run on either DC or AC. I used to own a Lincoln SA200, which was a fine machine but my little Lincoln 250 crackerbox will weld almost anything with the right size 6011 and I use the MIG on the rest...Hollis

[Gordon Maney]

I think I recall that 6011 will weld out of position.... vertical or overhead. Is that right?

[MoparNorm]

Originally posted by Gordon Maney
I think I recall that 6011 will weld out of position.... vertical or overhead. Is that right?

Not when I weld with it,...ha!ha!ha!

Hi Gordon!

Yes but there are many, many more rod choices than there used to be, and even some really good rod for welding through that rusty stuff we have been keeping in our back yard scrap pile.

MIG is making inroads into construction, but mostly with flux, the gas is too influenced by outside conditions, but mainly because the feed hose/cord is limited to 12' to 15' from the spool on most rigs and it is just not versatile enough to move around.

[HWooldridge]

Gordon,

You read a stick rod from right to left. The first number on the right is the type of rod, the second is the position and the rest are the tensile strength. For an E7018, the 8 is low hydrogen, the 1 is all position and the 70 indicates 70,000 psi tensile. I have some 11018, which are the same as above except 110K rating (these were for high pressure pipe).

I hate 6013 rods because I typically get slag inclusions but they are often recommended by welding shops for beginners because the soft arc doesn't burn through metal as bad as some others.

There are many specialty rods on the market that are good for oddball stuff and MoparNorm's comment on MIG is correct but I use hard wire and shielding gas in the shop because I don't have to fight the flux. On outside jobs, a flux-cored wire is almost a necessity.

If someone wanted to practice with a stick, I'd say buy 3/32 E6011's, set it on 60-75 amps and go to town...Hollis

[MoparNorm]

Good posts Hollis! Lots of good acurate information.

[HWooldridge]

MP,

Many moons ago, I installed boilers and put up a lot of steam pipe. It's no fun as a living but good skills for our hobby.

H

[dr9487]

I know these are some old posts here, but are still interesting. I've had my own welding business for 32 years. 95% of what I do is stick weld with 7018 electrodes. I do repairs on forklifts and heavy equipment where weld strength is of utmost importance.

Mig is great and does a good job, but over the years I've cut out a lot of factory mig welds and rewelded with 7018 with no more problems. I still do some oxy/acetylene welding. I haven't done any tig work in 20 years or so. I have a Miller Big 40 diesel and a Miller Trailblazer 280NT. Both are great machines.

[Bruce]

Hey Rick,
I had no idea that you were a welder, and for 32 years? I would say keep up the good work, but you've already done that. I need to practice more, w/ my mig unit, but I am out of shielding gas.
TTYL,

[Gordon Maney]

Originally posted by dr9487
I know these are some old posts here, but are still interesting. I've had my own welding business for 32 years. 95% of what I do is stick weld with 7018 electrodes. I do repairs on forklifts and heavy equipment where weld strength is of utmost importance.

Mig is great and does a good job, but over the years I've cut out a lot of factory mig welds and rewelded with 7018 with no more problems. I still do some oxy/acetylene welding. I haven't done any tig work in 20 years or so. I have a Miller Big 40 diesel and a Miller Trailblazer 280NT. Both are great machines.

I am curious, you mention the welding on forklifts. Do you ever weld forks? I have always wondered about the metallurgy of lift truck forks. They are incredibly tough.

You say you cut out welds. Did you do that with a torch? I used to work for a fabrication and machine shop. We rolled plate for a company that repaired rail cars. One of the processes they used was called arc gouging. I can’t recall even how it was done, but they did a lot of it.

Years ago I watched a guy weld up a jib crane assembly in the back of a big implement truck. He did all of the welding with a torch, and some of it was 1/2 inch plate. The weld beads were beautiful. I have always admired that kind of craftsmanship.

Bringing old threads up to the surface is fun. Thanks for that....

[Jonas Smith]

That's also called air arc or just gouging. I have one of those setup on my Big 40. It basicly uses your arc welder and a special lead that holds a carbon rod and shoots air past it at high pressure. It basicly blows the steel out of the weld. It works really good, but sparks are flying everywhere and it's LOUD! But as said, it's great for gouging out old welds, or for "v"ing out cracks that you are going to put weld in.

[JimmieD]

My former work as millwright called for lots of welding, but nowadays the fog sets in well before sunrise on my tired old brain! I found a website that is LOADED with techical information, far more than I even want to know, but very friendly to newcomers and head-scratchers like me. Y'all might enjoy it, but be sure and poke around and find all the different boards in it.

http://www.weldingweb.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=2

JimmieD

[Gordon Maney]

Pretty neat.... and, by golly, that is another vBulletin forum.

[dr9487]

Air arc is an excellent, fast means for removing heavy metal, noisy but good.

I've welded forks occasionally, replace fork hanger brackets quite often. I shorten uprights, narrow or widen carriages, build counterweights, etc. I have extended frames and added weight to increase load capacity, shortened frames and added taller weights to make short wheelbase high capacity lifts.

I modify new machines to fit special applications. I've done jobs from customers 200 miles away that no one else would touch. As far as I know I'm the only guy in NC or SC that will shorten a triple upright on any size forklift to whatever the customer needs.

Converting my deuce and a half to a dump was a piece of cake compared to a lot of jobs I do.

The nice thing is I really enjoy what I do.
Tomorrow will be a pretty simple day. I'm swapping brackets and mounting a late model Case roller upright on an older John Deere forklift that has a worn slider upright. I'm doing that job for an Isuzu diesel power unit my son and I are installing in a Fruehauf Trackmaster bulldozer/backhoe.

The fun just goes on and on.

[Gordon Maney]

Originally posted by dr9487
Air arc is an excellent, fast means for removing heavy metal, noisy but good.

I've welded forks occasionally, replace fork hanger brackets quite often. I shorten uprights, narrow or widen carriages, build counterweights, etc. I have extended frames and added weight to increase load capacity, shortened frames and added taller weights to make short wheelbase high capacity lifts.

I modify new machines to fit special applications. I've done jobs from customers 200 miles away that no one else would touch. As far as I know I'm the only guy in NC or SC that will shorten a triple upright on any size forklift to whatever the customer needs.

Converting my deuce and a half to a dump was a piece of cake compared to a lot of jobs I do. The nice thing is I really enjoy what I do.

Tomorrow will be a pretty simple day. I'm swapping brackets and mounting a late model Case roller upright on an older John Deere forklift that has a worn slider upright. I'm doing that job for an Isuzu diesel power unit my son and I are installing in a Fruehauf Trackmaster bulldozer/backhoe.

The fun just goes on and on.

I am weak on forklift terminology.... Do the uprights make up the mast? The term mast is one I have heard in my time around forklifts. The idea of shortening the wheel base on a forklift is interesting.

So, you are repowering this trackmaster machine?

I have often thought I would like to make up a pair of forks and attaching pieces for my loader to use occasionally. Do you have a sentence or two of opinion to offer on that idea?

I think your work sounds very interesting, and you are obviously very capable and experienced. How did you get into this work?

[dr9487]

Gordon, the upright or mast is the same thing, different people use different terminology. Its the channels that go up and down.

Quite a few people use forks on the loader bucket. Usually 3 u-shaped pcs welded to the top of the bucket. The forks are mounted on a rod with the back of the forks being about 6" taller than the bucket. Just roll the bucket forward to come under the bar and roll the bucket back and you`re ready to go. 2"x4"x1/4" tubing makes a pretty nice set of forks for a small loader or backhoe. Increase the dimensions for bigger machines. A piece of pipe on top with about a 1 1/2" rod.

I started hanging around the shop of an older man who did forklift modifications in 1970. His son wasn't interested in the business. I learned enough that I went in partnership with him in 1972. He had to retire because of a bad heart in 1974. My sons aren't interested in the business either although both older boys 33 and 34 are capable. Maybe my 6 year old will like it. He and one of my grandsons seems to like it.

[dr9487]

I bought the Trackmaster for $600 with a bad Wisconsin engine. My oldest son found the diesel and has done most of the modifications to install it. We are now redoing the pins and bushings in the backhoe boom. Runs really sweet now.

[Gordon Maney]

[i] I started hanging around the shop of an older man who did forklift modifications in 1970. His son wasn't interested in the business. I learned enough that I went in partnership with him in 1972. He had to retire because of a bad heart in 1974. My sons aren't interested in the business either although both older boys 33 and 34 are capable. Maybe my 6 year old will like it. He and one of my grandsons seems to like it. [/B]

I think you are in an enviable position.

[Gordon Maney]

Originally posted by dr9487
Quite a few people use forks on the loader bucket. Usually 3 u-shaped pcs welded to the top of the bucket. The forks are mounted on a rod with the back of the forks being about 6" taller than the bucket. Just roll the bucket forward to come under the bar and roll the bucket back and you`re ready to go.

2"x4"x1/4" tubing makes a pretty nice set of forks for a small loader or backhoe. Increase the dimensions for bigger machines. A piece of pipe on top with about a 1 1/2" rod.


I think I am hearing you say you would not use real forks. Is that because of their weight? You are saying a piece of 1-1/2 inch diameter round stock at the top?

[dr9487]

Gordon, 1 1/2" round stock at the top or larger for heavy loads. Standard forks are too short on the back unless you extend them to reach across the bucket. The forks I mentioned are for lighter duty use. For HD use most people remove the bucket and install a carriage with forks direct coupled to the machine. The fabricated forks normally are used if you need a lift capacity under 2500 lbs. You can do a search for bucket forks and should get some pictures.

[Gordon Maney]

Thank you, I will look for some of that. My John Deere has a really neat quick detach bucket mechanism that would allow me to make up something pretty good.

If I get some time soon I will take a photo. I am working to get an issue to the printer this week.....

[dr9487]

Gordon, here is picture of what I'm talking about.