I Need Another Chain Saw

[bosco]

I'm looking for a good chain saw and would like to ask the forum members what they think is the best.

I own a Mcculloch saw now, but it's resting in the shed along with it's Mcculloch brothers the weed trimmers (lets just say they are retired). They are just not the saw I used 30 years ago when I was a tree trimmer.

I'm considering buying a STIHL, but can't decide on the model. Is the STIHL a good choice..? I need it to have at least a 16" bar, possible up to 20". I have a small 12" saw now for trimming, but need something bigger.

All input is appreciated...and open to other manufactures.

Thanks

[powerwagontim]

I like my Jonsered 625. Always starts and is comefortable to use for extended periods. I have a 16" bar in it but it will take a 20 if you want.
Tim

[Gordon Maney]

I have three Stihl saws, an 009, a 260 and a 460. They have been excellent saws.

[MoparNorm]

....so I will say this just once, Stihl is the saw that Professionals use, Stihl is the saw that workes the best, Stihl is the saw that starts the fastest, cuts the longest, runs the smoothest. I have a 32" bar, it is the sweetest saw I have ever used, easily cuts four-6 cords a day, day after day after day.
Once I was cutting at my folks place in the Sierra's, I left a half tank of fuel in the saw thinking I was coming back the next day. A life crisis happened and it was 5 years before I came back. The saw started on the second pull, bad fuel and all.
I've used this saw for nearly 30 years, for firewood, beam cutting on construction sites and artistic carving, it has NEVER let me down. You can save money buying a lesser saw but you'll buy three or four junk saws when you could have bought a Stihl and got it right the first time.
Other than that, I have no opinion.....Happy Thanksgiving!
MN

[Gordon Maney]

Originally posted by MoparNorm
....so I will say this just once, Stihl is the saw that Professionals use, Stihl is the saw that workes the best, Stihl is the saw that starts the fastest, cuts the longest, runs the smoothest. I have a 32" bar, it is the sweetest saw I have ever used, easily cuts four-6 cords a day, day after day after day.
Once I was cutting at my folks place in the Sierra's, I left a half tank of fuel in the saw thinking I was coming back the next day. A life crisis happened and it was 5 years before I came back. The saw started on the second pull, bad fuel and all.
I've used this saw for nearly 30 years, for firewood, beam cutting on construction sites and artistic carving, it has NEVER let me down. You can save money buying a lesser saw but you'll buy three or four junk saws when you could have bought a Stihl and got it right the first time.
Other than that, I have no opinion.....Happy Thanksgiving!
MN

What model is that old saw?

[Gordon Maney]

I like Stihl, and have had good luck with them. Plus, I have a great dealer.

Having said all that. The two leaders of the pro world are Stilhl and Husqvarna. Jonsered is essentially a Husqvarna, so they are great, too.

You need to get around some of these saws and look at them, feel them, pick them up. Compare similar models. When I bought my third saw I almost bought a Husqvarna, as they are highly regarded and offer some good features.

Back to the dealer issue, that can make the difference. If the nearest dealer is 60 miles away, or if your local dealer is a farm supply store that has no capable service, then that may prove to be a deciding factor.

Also check out this site:

http://www.arboristsite.com

Go to the chainsaw forum, do a lot of reading, then do some searches, and you will find much to stimulate your thought process.

Then come back and tell us what you are thinking....

[Gordon Maney]

Originally posted by bosco
I'm looking for a good chain saw and would like to ask the forum members what they think is the best.

I own a Mcculloch saw now, but it's resting in the shed along with it's Mcculloch brothers the weed trimmers (lets just say they are retired). They are just not the saw I used 30 years ago when I was a tree trimmer.

I'm considering buying a STIHL, but can't decide on the model. Is the STIHL a good choice..? I need it to have at least a 16" bar, possible up to 20". I have a small 12" saw now for trimming, but need something bigger.

All input is appreciated...and open to other manufactures.

Thanks


What do you see as your diameter range requirement, meaning.... the size of the piece of wood you would typically cut? ....and maximum diameter?

[MoparNorm]

Originally posted by Gordon Maney
What model is that old saw?
I think (we're in uncharted waters here) that is is an AVE 032.
32 inch bar, I have felled trees up to 4' diameter but that is a trick for ONLY a professional, do NOT try that at home! ha!ha!
I am not as good as some who can set a stake into the ground and then drive the stake home with the falling tree.


Good questions, Gordon, as with any tool, the intended purpose is more important than what is on sale! You don't want to over kill, but you don't want to be left with a tool not up to the task either.
MN

[JimmieD]

I have quite a collection of vintage saws, mostly pro model McCulloch and Homelite. It is a true statement that you just can't find saws like these old ones.

My current problem is in finding PARTS for these great old machines!? Even the real biggie dealers that have old stock can't get them, and then it's what the market will bear on leftovers from private parties and scalpers. I will rebuild several over time, as they are still some of the best saws money can buy, but it isn't going to be cheap by any means.

Which brings me to Stihl. The name kinda says it all: 'STILL'. They have parts available all over the world and that will matter a lot 10-30 years from now when it's 'still' running and cutting wood. As a Pro saw the support on parts is excellent, if you have a Pro model.

I purchased a brand new Husqy, but was short on the old jingola. I got their # 2 or #3 from the bottom. I had it throw the chain at full bore 5 times. That's near 15,000 rpm. Took it back, the guy supposedly fixed it, and then it threw the chain 3 more times. Took it back, the guy trued the bar, changed the chain and did some other things. Threw the chain 6 more times. "Hey, Bubba, here's your Husqy back, while I've still got a face and legs left."

I got a couple of new chains for my 1967 Homelite and finished the season in grand style. Even after 35 years the tach readout on the Homie was a solid 14,000 anytime, anywhere!

Husqy makes very good saws, at the pro level. So do Stihl and Johnsered. My suggestion is to go to the highest level of Pro saw you can possibly afford and at least one size larger than the wood you plan to cut if possible. If it's a price toss up between a smaller Pro model and a larger 'home' type, go with the smaller Pro, 'cause it will cut rings around the homestyle, for years and years.

The bad Husqy was a home/contractor type saw, and not a Pro piece. I don't knock Pro Husqy at all, as they are a very good saw. If I was going to buy a brand new Pro saw today I'd go Stihl or Husqy, in that order. No experience with Johnsered, so???
JimmieD

[dbemis]

My first "chain saw" was a Wright Power Blade that my father was unable to get started. I got it going, but it was an awkward thing to use. Eventually I progressed to Stihls. I had at one time an 041 (among others) that I operated on an almost daily basis for 13 years before I finally broke a casting. I wore out many a bar but when it died it still had the original plug in it. It was one of the most productive pieces of machinery I've ever owned. Various friends in the logging biz have told me the Jonserads and Huskys are good machines too, but I've never dared "mess with success." I personally think a 20" bar will cover the most situations unless you do plan on either doing a ton of pruning or logging large diameter timber. That 041 passed on a good dozen years ago and I still miss it!

[Gordon Maney]

It has been explained to me that Husqvarna makes the Jonsered saws, and they look extremely similar.

[bosco]

Thanks guys, there's some great info here. Having a good dealer is a very good point. There is one not far from me and they have a great service department. I have been there several times and looked at a few of the Stihl saws. The guys there are very helpful and know a great deal about the products they sale and service.

I didn't think of going with one of the pro models, but that does make sense. I know that they are better made and would hold up longer.

I gotten by in the past with most of the cutting I do with the 16" bar. I do perfer that size since I feel more comfortable with it. There have been times the larger bar would have made it easier though. Anything needing over a 20" bar I would call in my buddy, who works with saws as a prosfession. I do not climb trees anymore, especially with a saw. My buddy has a bucket and man does that make things easier.

Stihl is the saw that I am going to buy. Once I get to the dealers, I'll look over the different pro models and also some of their mid range saws and then make that decision.

Say, thanks Gordon for that website link ...... I'll check it out in more detail in the next few days.

Thanks again,

[Gordon Maney]

Look at the MS260, a really great pro saw, and often described as the saw you would use the most if you owned it....

[Doc Dave]

I have 25 acres, 20 of them in "eastern forest trees". I heat partially with wood, and have been cutting wood for 20 years. Most of my buildings are built with lumber from trees I have cut with a Stihl saw and the logs cut at the local Mennonite sawmill.
I went with Stihl because of the reputation and the fact I have a local shop that can take care of it. They have been great. Stihl really supports their dealers well. If I was just a "homeowner", I may have considered a cheaper saw, but because of how I use it, I wanted a high quality saw.
Get a slightly bigger saw than you think you need. You won't be disappointed.

[Charles Talbert]

I've used both of these when I was in the grading business. I think both are quality saws as we put them to the ACID test cutting right-of-way. This is a tough & demanding job, usually in a very dirty environment. I would highly recommend either brand. I have used other brands as well, but didn't get nearly as good a service from them.

[dr9487]

Years ago when I used a saw a lot I had the old McCulloch model 45 and a big David Bradley that were both excellent saws. Now I don't use a saw much, I have a Poulan with 16" bar. Its done me a good job for several years.

[JimmieD]

In regard to bar and chain size don't let that influence your decision. In my saw collection I have Pro Macs, Pioneer and Homelite all of which can easily swing a 60" bar, and a few that can handle a 72". When you take a powerful saw and put a shorter blade on it you get: the same powerful saw, working with far less effort.

If you buy a Pro model that can take a 24"-32" bar and hang a smaller bar on it, say a 16", it will be performing effortlessly for many a year to come. My Pro Mac 800 or Super Pro 80 can both handlle a 60" bar with ease all day long, even cutting oak, but with a 24 they're phenomenal. It usually flat amazes guys with their brand new $900+ 36" inch saw that a 35 year old saw half the cut size is double cutting to their stacks! [It's all about applied torque ha haha]

You might want to look into some of the newer safety gear too, as things have changed there as well. Kevlar cut-proof pants and the like can save life and limb!
JimmieD

[bosco]

I haven't made it to the dealer yet, but I did look at the Stihl website. That MS260 looks like a great saw. I also looked at the safety gear available these days. How things have changed. The chaps look like something I also would like to invest in .... any comments on them?

I have a few acres myself and my first task with the new saw would be to clear some over grown fence lines. There are several trees in the fence line that need to go, especially the "bodark". They are extremely hard and tough, and have many thorns. They were once used for fence post and at one time archery bows. It will take a good saw to tackle these trees. I will also put the old M37 to use on this project as well. She'll be pulling the old fence post so I can set new ones and I'll also give her the chance to pull a stump or two.

Thanks again for the info ya'll have provided.

[Charles Talbert]

Originally posted by bosco
I haven't made it to the dealer yet, but I did look at the Stihl website. That MS260 looks like a great saw. I also looked at the safety gear available these days. How things have changed. The chaps look like something I also would like to invest in .... any comments on them?

I have a few acres myself and my first task with the new saw would be to clear some over grown fence lines. There are several trees in the fence line that need to go, especially the "bodark". They are extremely hard and tough, and have many thorns. They were once used for fence post and at one time archery bows. It will take a good saw to tackle these trees. I will also put the old M37 to use on this project as well. She'll be pulling the old fence post so I can set new ones and I'll also give her the chance to pull a stump or two.

Thanks again for the info ya'll have provided.

I've seen several cases where chaps saved people from serious injury. Didn't always prevent slight injury, but 1 could just imagine the seriousness if the person hadn't had them at all. They are a very worthwhile investment.

[JimmieD]

Regarding that bodark, once used for archery bows. There are two most common injuries in the woods: first, a falling tree; second a snag above causing the bottom to kick out unexpectedly below, plus that then falling tree.

The third most common is from downed or bent trunks and branches under compression. A guy is in the habit of always cutting from the top, and once it cuts through he finds a madly spinning chain suddenly headed for his noggin, at release of compression in wood! Plan each cut logically and from a mechanical perspective and you'll have a lot more body parts at the end of the day.

It can be good to first make a partial cut from the bottom, to reduce compression pressures, then followed by a careful cut on top to let it break in two. No, it doesn't eliminate the danger, but it reduces it some. Multiple cuts in terms of simple mechanical priciples can save life and limb, and I ain't talking about firewood limbs there!

There was an excellent book, maybe by Husqvarna, available in local libraries. I had no idea there was so much of a science to wood cutting! Might look for it, and all the rest of you guys that cut your own, as it is a wealth of information and practical safety tips.
JimmieD

[MoparNorm]

...piece of wood in the air, but especially snags, are best cut from the bottom first, about 1/3 of the way up, before cutting from the top, experience and the type/size/pressure of the snag will determine the exact amount. Also never stand on anything but the ground, and never stand directly over the saw,...unless you don't like the current location of your hair and part......Cutting with any type of saw requires planning and awareness. I have been a carpenter since 1966 and I can still count to ten on my fingers......but I have the scars to show that the new math is still possible.....
MN

[Gordon Maney]

I have to ask. What is a snag?

[JimmieD]

Hi Gordon!

A 'snag' usually refers to any tree wood impinged by other wood or obstacles. That is, that it is 'snagged' or forced into some type of load/compression that it would not have if growing alone and naturally. It can also refer to a hanger, as a piece cut off or broken off that is still hooked into or impinged by other branches.

They can be very unpredicatable, so I think Norm is talking about taking the compressive load off bit by bit. Plus it's way easier to handle a saw down low than up high, so start at the bottom. If it's going to suddenly and violently break loose as you cut, you're a goner if the saw is overhead or even above chest height. Here the saw and the wood have applied torque but you don't!
JimmieD

[bosco]

I agree Jimmy about the falling tree as being number 1 in injuries. Many years ago when I was in my early 20's (which was many years ago) I worked for a guy who cleared land for new subdivisions. We would fall the trees and leave the stumps about 3-4 feet up. The bulldozer would then come in and remove the stumps.

Let me present an incident that happened to me back then. In slow times we would also remove and trim trees in neighborhoods for folks. Some times a rope or cable was attached high in the tree to help it fall more accurately. This wasn't always the case, but this method was used in certain situations. Another worker and I usually attended the rope from the ground and we always stood where the boss instructed us to, because we knew the tree was gonna fall toward us. The boss would always undercut the tree to help aid in the fall direction. This time while on the ground and applying tension on the rope, the tree starts to fall in our direction. As the tree gets closer to the ground, something appears wrong in where we are standing. It was too late, when the tree hit the ground the force of it knocked us on our butts and we both spent the next few minutes picking out pieces of wood (twigs) from our clothing and hair. Ok, so the boss miscalculated. Fortunately, no one was hurt ... but it could have been worse. I found another job soon afterwards.

The 'snag' you mention is something I will need to look for very closely when clearing my fence line. Most of the trees are entangled with vines and will make the falling tree possibly kickout or twist. So, I will need to pay close attention to that and plan my cuts. Those trees are not very tall, so hopefully I can cut the vines (and minimize that obstacle) to aid the in the fall of the tree. I sure don't wont any tree, much less one full of thorns coming in my direction.

One thing I would like to add about when we cleared land for subdivisions. Once we had to clear several acres of walnut trees. The boss told us once they were on the ground we had to cut them up and leave 'em. You see we usually removed any wood of value and sell them. But not this time, we had to leave all those beautiful walnut trees laying on the ground. What a shame and waste.

[MoparNorm]

Thanks for answering Jimmie. Also, when you fall a tree, (that's grammatically correct! ) you may notice that the branches that ended up on the underside may be holding the trunk off of the ground, that's perfect for keeping your bar out of the dirt, but be aware that there are several tons of wood there that will soon obey the laws of gravity. Plan your cuts and don't be tenative with the throttle. A saw held firmly at high rpm will run through a snag before it can buck back, but a slow throttle speed will more easily bind and buck back at you. Practice and experience helps the survivors.....

MN

[JimmieD]

So true Norm: in chainsaw work it's full power or no power, with no good reason to run in between. If you're cutting wood, then cut wood!

One further admonition that comes from painful experience. You mentioned some pesky vines? I ran into that as I had about 20 acres in the Sierra foothills of central California to clear. These blasted vines were everywhere, and fully entangled in every tree and bush!

So, I waded in and let the chips fly, first whacking away miles of these vines, then the tree, and back to vines and onward all day. It happened to be a pretty hot day too, so perspiration and the sap and juices from those vines had me thoroughly soaked even in heavy protective clothing. The vines would would squirt out a sappy juice as soon as the chain hit. Took a long hot shower when I got home. Unfortunately.

I now am able to identify Poison Sumac at distances near a mile, on an overcast day, at dusk. That lovely and refreshing hot water opened up every pore in my skin, to let the sumac oils in, and I was not back to cut more wood for 4 weeks! Hard to describe the pain, as ALL of the front of me, and head, neck, arms and much of the backside was a mass of blisters that defy description.

If you get a chance, drop by a library or look up Poison Sumac on the net, maybe before you start on those 'vines'?
JimmieD

[powerwagontim]

Hi Jimmie,
I once went swimming at a state park in Ca. On the way back to the car we spotted a lush blackberry patch. We waded right in, I was wearing only a pair of cutoff jeans. After filling several coffee cans we called it quits. It was sometime the next day we realised what the vines growing all through the blackberries were. Did I mention that I stopped to take a leak during the blackberry picking? Bad mistake there! There was literally no part of me that wasnt infected. I finally used my last ditch remedy. Scratch it until it is running and then wipe it down with chlorox. Man it hurts so good! It dries it up in no time at all. Anything that hurts that much must be good right?
Tim

[JimmieD]

OOoohhh....the pain of it! I still get cold shudders remembering, and yes, I even borrowed my buddy's outhouse that day, as there was a need to sit.....so to say I can relate is an understatement ha hahaha!

I was around poison oak all my life out here, and had become completely immune. The sumac is a whole different critter, and a much different reaction. Not so much itchy bumps as a deep blistering lesion. I'll remember the Clorox. It works very well for locker room foot rashes too, by the way, pouring it on straight. In the shower is the best place of course. Clorox is very toxic, but it has its uses in a desperate pinch.

Of course all you good people are cautioned to check with your healthcare professional before trying this at home for any personal use.
JimmieD

[MoparNorm]

....get the same results, without the resulting brain damage to the political portion of your thought process (hi Tim! ha!ha!) by using hydrogen peroxide. It will not have the deadly clorine gases that are present in bleach that could cause you to expire while sitting in your shower/toilet enclosure. Although the resulting front page newspaper photo would be interesting reading.......= )

Jimmie, up your way there is a lot of "tan" oak, the garbage oak that is used to make pallets, etc. The logging companies leave it pushed up in piles when they clear a new road to access a permit area. I found a 12' high tan-oak stump once that I though would make good firewood, since it appeared to be dead for several years. It was and indeed the center was rotted and hollow, the water shot out nearly 6 feet after my first cut and ran for a good 5 minutes, not exactly a sumac story but wierd never the less.

MN

[powerwagontim]

Hi Norm,
Maybe it enhanced the political portion of my brain. Either way, I am comfortable with my beliefs. Whats your excuse, injesting too much wet concrete? Dodge content? None!
Tim

[JimmieD]

Hi Norm!

Thanks for the Peroxide tip; but on the Clorox I'm only talking about 1/2 ounce total for both tootsies. You're right about chlorine, but this amount is pretty negligible. Does open up the sinuses a bit though....

As to up my way where I live: as near as I can tell it may well be the 'WEIRD' capital of the western world.

The tan oak has a very open grain structure as you know, plus it can have a lot of resin like live oak. Live oak really punishes saws in northern California. Tan oak has a very pungent odor when cut, plus a large amount of natural sap and moisture in it. Ive had it gushing pretty good while cutting whole trees. After standing cut, I can well imagine just what you say about the water gushing out.

The valley is best for oak, as it's somewhat rare up here at alpine level. We have heavy conifers from 3,000 up to about 8,000 feet then it thins out some. It's all gone at 11,000 to 12,000 feet for the most part. Most folks use lodge pole pine, as it's very nearly a hard wood, and there's 18 other varieties of 'pines'. There's a big problem with the resin/sap in the conifers, and it's the number one cause of chimney fires.

Speaking of which: The very best way to extinguish a chimney fire is to toss only about 3/4 to 1 cup of water on the fire, and let the explosion of steam extinguish the flames. If it doesn't work the first time, add another 3/4 cup, so you don't put the fire out. This way you will still have a burning fire-fighting tool!

I'll refrain from political commentaries at this time, or at least in this place....

JimmieD

[TK064]

Stihl or husqvarna are the only saws to buy. Both use European designed motors that are better than the other designs. Which brand the loggers use seems to be more regional than anything else.

The huskies tend to be lighter and the stihl easier to field repair. Take your choice, they are both great.

I use a small husky 45 for the majority of my work and a big stihl 034 when I need to cut up some big trees. Using a big saw all of the time can wear out an old back in no time.

[bosco]

I watched a very interesting show this afternoon on the History channel called Toolbox. The title of the program was Chainsaws. It gave the history of the saw and how it had developed over the years. The show also went into how the logging industry began to use the chainsaw and get away from the hand saws.

The Stihl saws were mostly used on the show and how they came into being. Some German fellow, named Stihl, back in the early 1900's (can't remember the year) came up with this lighter saw. There were other saws shown; diesel powered ones, 2 man saws, and even that big rig that can cut and strip the limbs off trees in a matter of minutes. But the chainsaw was first invented by some fellow out in California in 1905.

It was a very educational program and if you a chance to watch it, I know you will enjoy it.

[Duane Aldridge]

If you buy anything other than a stihl your buying a hatchet!! Thanks Fleabag!!

[bosco]

Just bought the Stihl MS260Pro today. It's a great saw..! Just what I have been looking for. And to top it off, the dealer threw in the case, an extra chain, a 6 pak of engine oil, 4 quarts of bar oil and a pair of kelvar chaps.

I want to thank Gordon for suggesting that model to me.

Now I got some wood to cut..:)

[townwagon66]

I tried Homelite,and Poulan and found that these were good saws for weekenders or the once a month cutting but for daily use I bought a Stihl 023, 039, and for the big trees a 064, with 16, 20, and 36" bars. I could not believe the superior performance that these saws have over the cheeper ones. I've had these for over 10 years and wouldn't trade them for anything else thats out there. When I bought these I thought the price was kinda high but after using them for the first year with flawless performance I realized what a bargin I had really got when I bought them, and now after 10+ years of flawless performance I feel like I stole them. I can take any one of them and pull the rope twice and their running every time, thats rite, every time. You've been in the woods before where someone is out there pulling and pulling for 1/2 hour and there saw never starts, right away you know its not orange and white. The first time I filed the chain on the 039 it was 18 mouths old, the spark plugs are original on all 3 saws. If this doesn't have you running out to buy a new Stihl I don't know what would ever convince you. Good luck with your purchase. Gene

[townwagon66]

The above post was not signed off correctly, please forgive me.
Gene
48 Ford 8N
52 M37
53 M37
60 F250 4x4 w/winch
66 PWTW w/winch
69 F150
70 Yazoo mower 60" deck Wisconson 12 hp
72 Dodge Camper Special
81 Yazoo mower 60" deck Wisconson 14 hp
82 W150-doner truck
97 CTD 4x4 auto C/Cab
98 Grand Cherokee
99 Breeze
00 Yamaha Kodiak 401 cc 4x4
00 JD 4710 w/ loader
02 Neon
03 Neon
1.75 HP Reo gas engine W gear reduction
2.5 HP Continental comercial engine
1.5 HP maytag gas engine
064 Stihl
039 Stihl
023 Stihl

[MoparNorm]

Thanks for reminding me! I stihl (ha!ha!) have my original plug in my Stihl! I bought it in 1979, I just used it last week, I'm on my second chain, nothing comes close to cutting like that saw! I'd change that plug but it runs too good! The only problem that I have had is that the oil tank seals started leaking last week. You'd think that rubber would last longer than 26 years???? = )
MN

[Keith in CO]

Within the past year I read a chain saw rating survey of pro loggers who rated Stihl and Husky as #1 and 2, but #3 was the Echo due to its reliability. Made in Japan - think of Honda/Toyota reliablilty in a chain saw. Over 20 years ago I bought an Echo, which is branded/labled as a John Deere, and it has been great, I highly recommend it.